Hi, new here guys, not a total newb but need a bit of help IR2110 Inverter

[MAGLATRON]

Hi there I've made this circuit that is supposed to take 8 supplies 10v each, and series 2 sets of 4 and then parallel those two sets and that voltage/current goes into the main inverter circuit my observations tell me that if I put 5v onto the VDD of the IR2110's and the signal voltage of 3.3 volts I can't get any wattage through r9- resistor right before the measureVoltshere tag; if I put the signals equal to the logic supply at 5v I get the power to spike in increments and want to know if this behaviour is correct if I put the logic supply 3.3 and the signal at 3.3 then the power spikes come back but a little less in magnitude. Is the power supposed to spike like that asc file need to remove .txt!! Am I even measuring the power in the correct place??

--- Updated Sep 21, 2024 ---

I don't understand the points system!!

--- Updated Sep 21, 2024 ---

[SOLVED] - Please Explain this Induced Voltage Waveform

Hello everyone. I'm inducing voltage into a coil using 4 magnets that are arranged circularly with alternating poles. You can see from the diagram that when the magnets are moved, EMF is induced into the coil. I was expecting to see a sine wave produced in the coil but the waveform shown is...

www.edaboard.com

Is there a way to emulate this waveform in LTSpice?

 

[MAGLATRON]

yes I know loading the coils will put up more resistance to the flywheel but I'm giving it a go anyhow it's fun building and experimenting, see how it goes!

 

[Mehvish99]

What specific questions do you have about it? Are you looking for help with a particular application or need assistance with a specific circuit? Feel free to share more details about your project.

 

[MAGLATRON]

I'm sure you've already said that! the initial question was does VDD in the IR2110 circuit at 5volt, then does the signal have to be the same. in the LTSpice only works when the signal pins Hin Lin is the same as VDD so that is what I am going to do. Making major modifications to the Maglatron in about two weeks so I don't have much to say right now but I'll keep you guys posted and if I do think of something I'll let you guys know I'm tidying up my work space and having an organise remaking the inverter just because I need to but I've got that it's not too hard I'll post a picture of it when I've finished it need to hunt out some FETs got the diodes and caps and resistors and I am doing it on protoboard and of course the IR2110's too. Oh yeah and I have to program Arduino for the pulses but that part is really easy!

 

[KlausST]

does VDD in the IR2110 circuit at 5volt, then does the signal have to be the same

The datasheet is rather clear in this. There is a chart (several) which shows V_IH and V_IL vs VDD.

I´d rather rely on the datsheet informations than on second source or any simulation tool.

Klaus

 

[MAGLATRON]

ok so if VDD is at 5volt the the signal can be 3.3 approximately

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

some points:
1) if the supply of the logic chip (that generates the signal) is 3.3V ... then the signal itself will always be less!
2) to me it seems the V_IH for 5.0V supply is about 3.5V according the diagram. Mind: vertical it´s 3V/div
3) if your weigth is 80kg ... and you go on a bungee jump ... and they say the maximum the rope can handle is 80kg .... would you do the jump?

Some hobbyists may have no problem with it...

But for me - as a designer for reliable industrial electronics - this is an absolute no go.
One has to consider that the supply voltage (3.3V) will have initial tolerance, thermal drift and drift with load. So in worst case it may be 15% to 20% less than nominal.
And also the supply voltage (5V) and the thresholds of the IR2110 will drift (to more positive in worst case)

If you get 3.3V (nominal supply voltage) signals and you want to feed the IR2110 (5V supplied) .... I recommend to use an 74HCTxxx logic device (supplied with 5V) as level shifter.

Klaus

 

[MAGLATRON]

hmm and not to use the Arduino? I was going to use the LM7805 from the 12v rail; I am not familiar with the 74HCTxxx but I do have one or two laying around, how do you propose I go about it? what would you you do? because I need this to work, perhaps you can provide an image of the 74HCT and how it's wired up to save time but I will also have a look, thanks spice file maybe??? and if you look at the image it says that that line is the maximum so the analogy of the bungee jump if the weight is rated at 80kg you wouldn't go above that, so I spose the question is if I want to get near 3.5volt but there is upto 20% lost then I would need to start with a signal of 4.2volt?

--- Updated Sep 27, 2024 ---

Hi,

some points:
1) if the supply of the logic chip (that generates the signal) is 3.3V ... then the signal itself will always be less!
2) to me it seems the V_IH for 5.0V supply is about 3.5V according the diagram. Mind: vertical it´s 3V/div
3) if your weigth is 80kg ... and you go on a bungee jump ... and they say the maximum the rope can handle is 80kg .... would you do the jump?

Some hobbyists may have no problem with it...

But for me - as a designer for reliable industrial electronics - this is an absolute no go.
One has to consider that the supply voltage (3.3V) will have initial tolerance, thermal drift and drift with load. So in worst case it may be 15% to 20% less than nominal.
And also the supply voltage (5V) and the thresholds of the IR2110 will drift (to more positive in worst case)

If you get 3.3V (nominal supply voltage) signals and you want to feed the IR2110 (5V supplied) .... I recommend to use an 74HCTxxx logic device (supplied with 5V) as level shifter.

Klaus

so could you please provide a more in depth explanation does the shifter provide the voltage for both the +5volt - VDD and the +3.3volt for the signals do I still use the Arduino with this setup could you do a mock-up in LTspice for me
Also done a bit of tidying and I have for definite one of the 74HCT chips!!

--- Updated Sep 27, 2024 ---

so here is a mockup that I would like to see if you can get it to work where the signal voltage is 3.3v and the VDD is 5v and also add in the circuitry to do with 74HCT chip.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

It´s not clear why you mention Arduino and 7805.
--> If it´s important to discuss, then give deatails.

Indeed I guess I somehow lost the focus about the problem. Let´s focus on ONE problem.

You - as the OP - tell your exact problem you want to discuss. Please provide a simple (hand drawn) sketch if it´s useful to clarify things.
*******

In the meantime, not to waste time I just talk about the signal flow.
I guess (and you need to confrim!) that it´s currently something like this

Arduino XXX (3V3 powerd) --> IR2110 (5V powered)
Then the problem is that the signal level from the Arduino does not match the expected input levels of the IR2110.

Thus my recommendation:
Arduino XXX (3V3 powered) --> 74HCTxxx (5V powered) --> IR2110 (5V powered)
Here the 74HCTxxx works as level shifter. This means it is happy with the small levels of the Arduino xxx ... but delivers higher output levels that satisfy the IR2110 requirements. A 74HCTxxx device is happy with V_IH of 2.0V .. but sends out levels close to 5V.

BUT:
There is a lot unknown:
* What exact ARDUNIO are you using? What is it´s power supply, what are it´s signal levels.
* Are you forced to use this exact Arduino module?
* Are you forced to use the IR2110?
* Are you forced to use the IR2110 powered with 5V?

Klaus

Btw: I don´t use simulation tools .. I can´t even open your file.

 

[MAGLATRON]

don't know how important it is but I'll talk about it anyway the 12v to run the circuit i.e. the dual IR2110 inverter, I just thought that if the VDD needs 5volt then use the LM7805 to regulate down to the 5volts needed, the Arduino was going to toggle the signal pins at 50Hz with a dead time of 2us at 3.3v and that would too be powered by the regulator, so that's that, I thought that the expected signal level was 3.3 because that image with the graph told us that when the VDD is 5v then the maximum voltage needed at the signal is 3.3v I can use nano uno mega duo esp32d

* What exact ARDUNIO are you using? What is it´s power supply, what are it´s signal levels.
* Are you forced to use this exact Arduino module?
* Are you forced to use the IR2110?
* Are you forced to use the IR2110 powered with 5V?

as I said model of Arduino I have a few and not forced to use any pretty much forced to use the IR2110 and the power is not forced but it does run the main circuitry from 12v hope this is clear the reason 3.3 is in my head is because it says in the datasheet that it runs on 3.3v logic does the vdd logic supply have to be the same voltage as on the signal pins???? that is what I need to clarify please, thanks. Never used a level shifter but think it might not be a necessity "output levels that satisfy the IR2110 requirements" what are those requirements in idiot proof terms if you can

--- Updated Sep 27, 2024 ---

so I have determined through trial and error, VDD must be the same voltage as the signal pins! so I'm comfortable to drive the signal pins with 5v strait from the Arduino UNO

 

[KlausST]

I just thought that if the VDD needs 5volt

I wonder where this come from. Did you read the datasheet?
There is a section "Recommended Operating Conditions" containing a table.
And in the table there is the specification for VDD.
It rather clearly says it may be in the range of 3V...20V.

then the maximum voltage needed at the signal is 3.3v

No. The chart shows the threshold level. And this threshold level has a tolarance and has drift.
So let´s say the VDD of the IR2110 is 5V ... then the threshold level is (just as an example) in the range of 2.5V and 3.5V.
Let´s say you have 3 ICs IR2110, the one switches at 2.7V, the next at 3.1V and the other at 2.8V.
Note: The threshold not only varies from device to device but also varies with temperature and with time and so on.
So if your input signal is 2.9V, then only 2 devices will work properly ... the one wint the 3.1V threshold will not work reliably.
But if you design electronics, then you design it in a way that ALL devices will work properly.
This meas that if the threshold voltage range is from min 2.5V to max 3.5V,

then your INPUT signal needs to be
--> AT LEAST 3.5V! (minimum)
datasheet also says: recommended: VDD
absolute maximum: VDD + 0.3V

*****
Now you have many options ... We can not tell you what is best for you.
You may use
* 3.3V Arduino --> 3.3V IR2110
* 5V Arduino --> 5V IR2110
* 3.3V Arduino --> 5V 74HCTxxx --> 5V IR2110
maybe more....
You have to decide...
****

does the vdd logic supply have to be the same voltage as on the signal pins????

Already answered .. multiple times...

Never used a level shifter but think it might not be a necessity "output levels that satisfy the IR2110 requirements" what are those requirements in idiot proof terms if you can

I already explained it before, now again. The datashett explains it, too. I don´t understand what´s still unclear. I guess I´m unable to explain .. then you need to contact some one else.

Klaus

 

[MAGLATRON]

I think you explain rather well to be fair, I'm a bit slow on the up take so can you help me to design a circuit that will work for two IR2110 when you explained the part about the max is VDD + 0.3 I did not understand it in the data sheet, yet now it is perfectly clear to me, so you do and can help sorry if I seem a little ignorant some times try and bare with me because I am proactive and am trying to get it figured out

--- Updated Sep 28, 2024 ---

satisfy the IR2110 requirements

what exactly are the requirements

5V Arduino --> 5V IR2110

I choose the 5v Arduino --> IR2110
I know you said you cannot tell me which is best but in your opinion how would you go about it, it would be highly appreciated!!

--- Updated Sep 28, 2024 ---

because I have no problem building the circuits physically i.e. following instructions but i don't design circuits for a living, I just want to learn somethings on the way but most importantly I need a working circuit what would you set the VDD to (between 3 and 20volt) and what would you put the signals at??

--- Updated Sep 28, 2024 ---

so what you are saying is that if the Vdd supply is 5V then driving the Hin and Lin pins with 3.3V logic is marginal. The IR2110 datasheet says the chip is 3.3V logic compatible, so in that case Vdd should also be 3.3V, not 5V.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

what exactly are the requirements

Indeed the whole datasheet.
In your case mainly:
* Power supply: You have to decide according the options already given.
* Signal input: VIL, VIL according VDD
* External wiring; decoupling capacitors!!!!
* Parts dimensioning: seems to be good so far.

I choose the 5v Arduino --> IR2110
I know you said you cannot tell me which is best but in your opinion how would you go about it, it would be highly appreciated!!

I´ve not designed 5V microcontroller appplication in decades. Thus I surely would go for 3.3V
The simplest way is to use 3.3V for the IR2110, too.

For this you need to be sure that the power supplies are stable. The IR2110 specifies 3.0V as minimum ... this has to be satisfied even down to microseconds.

I guess for a very reliable application (not for something to play with) I´d use: 3.3V Arduino --> 5V 74HCTxxx --> 5V IR2110
A lot more effort.

****
Very important:
This (switching power) application needs careful PCB layout design. Breadboard is a no go.
GND plane, short wiring between IR2110 and transistors, kelvin style wiring of the Mosfet Gate and Source connections to the IR2110.
Careful wiring at all

Klaus

 

[MAGLATRON]

could you put together a LTSpice schematic for me please? would be highly grateful

--- Updated Sep 28, 2024 ---

so is this good? please feel free to modify for a more efficient version or how it should be.

 

[KlausST]

so is this good?

did you modify it according decoupling capacitors, power supplies, signal supplies?

I don´t use LTspice.

Klaus

 

[MAGLATRON]

why don't you use spice??? it is very good!! so decoupling caps is 100nf over VCC and COM/VSS, not sure about the signal supplies

 

[MAGLATRON]

power supply will be 8 AA batteries combined for 12volt

 

[KlausST]

power supply will be 8 AA batteries combined for 12volt

For me speaking ... 8 AA batteries is not the same as 12V.
This is because when I hear 12V, then I assume this is "really" 12.0V from a stable supply.
But 8 AA batteries may be rechargable ones or not.
And batteries have a higher range of voltage
and batteries have a higher impedance
and a different behaviour with respect to frequency.

Additionally batteries should be operated with some kind of protection.
Under-discharge ... overcurrent ... over charge ...

For some applications this all may not play a big role ... but for other applications this may result in malfunction.

***
I don´t know whether this plays a role for your load... but in any case you should add low ESR bulk capacitor on your PCB (in parallel to the already mentioned fast capacitors)

Klaus

 

[MAGLATRON]

For me speaking ... 8 AA batteries is not the same as 12V.
This is because when I hear 12V, then I assume this is "really" 12.0V from a stable supply.
But 8 AA batteries may be rechargable ones or not.
And batteries have a higher range of voltage
and batteries have a higher impedance
and a different behaviour with respect to frequency.

Additionally batteries should be operated with some kind of protection.
Under-discharge ... overcurrent ... over charge ...

For some applications this all may not play a big role ... but for other applications this may result in malfunction.

***
I don´t know whether this plays a role for your load... but in any case you should add low ESR bulk capacitor on your PCB (in parallel to the already mentioned fast capacitors)

Klaus

Duracell AA batteries 1.5v each adds up to 12v

 

[KlausST]

why don't you use spice???

I guess the main reason is because I´ve learned to read datasheets and according application notes.
Thes documents telly you how you should do the schematic.

But the schematic is only half the way to success.
With almost all modern circuits you need an appropriate PCB layout. Here the LTspice is not of help at all. (There are more advanced simulation tools that take the PCB layout into account)

Let´s take your circuit.
I follow the requirements about signal levels, power supply, timing ... thus I am quite sure the circuit should work.
I don´t need the simulation... because the simulation uses the information from the datasheet (in most cases).
So if the datasheet is wrong ... the simulation will be wrong, too.
But if the datasheet is correct .. there still is the chance that the simulation is wrong.
Thus I trust the datsheet more than the simulation.

And I´m experienced with PCB routing.
I don´t think that in the past 10 years I had a design that did not work from the beginning.

Now the other way round.
You do the simulation .. nothing wrong with it. But you don´t see that a device becomes warm. You don´t see the negative effects of a bad PCB layout.
You don´t see the effects of a missing power supply decoupling capacitor. You (usually) don´t see when an XTAL circuit does not oscillate (or oscillates with the worng frequency).
So the simulation gives good results .... but then on a bad PCB layout .... or missing capacitors ... it´s likely that the circuit explodes.
Or especially with (your) switching power application ... yu are not aware of very short voltage spikes when a transistor switches OFF.
And it may work fine .. .maby for weeks ... but the spikes may slowly kill the IC inside isolation barrier .. and you see your circuit fail after weeks or month of (apparently) working fine.

This does not mean simulation is a bad thing. Nor do I want somebody discourage from using simulation.
They bring a big benefit - especially for less experienced designers. Or if the designer eneters a new field of electronics.
One can play around, test this and that .. see the influence. And for all this you don´t need to buy all the ICs and other parts ... and you don´t see an semiconductor to explode.

Klaus

--- Updated Sep 28, 2024 ---

Duracell AA batteries 1.5v each adds up to 12v

Again: this 1.5V is just nominal battery voltage. In realit the voltage may be higher when very new ... but the voltage will drop:
* with rising load current
* with change of temperture
* with age
* with charging state

Sooner or later they will go down to 0V.
Maybe they work satisfactory down to 1.2V ... but after this they gow down very fast.
And if you continue to draw current .. they may even leak out an etchy fluid.

Klaus

 

[MAGLATRON]

I guess the main reason is because I´ve learned to read datasheets and according application notes.
Thes documents telly you how you should do the schematic.

But the schematic is only half the way to success.
With almost all modern circuits you need an appropriate PCB layout. Here the LTspice is not of help at all. (There are more advanced simulation tools that take the PCB layout into account)

Let´s take your circuit.
I follow the requirements about signal levels, power supply, timing ... thus I am quite sure the circuit should work.
I don´t need the simulation... because the simulation uses the information from the datasheet (in most cases).
So if the datasheet is wrong ... the simulation will be wrong, too.
But if the datasheet is correct .. there still is the chance that the simulation is wrong.
Thus I trust the datsheet more than the simulation.

And I´m experienced with PCB routing.
I don´t think that in the past 10 years I had a design that did not work from the beginning.

Now the other way round.
You do the simulation .. nothing wrong with it. But you don´t see that a device becomes warm. You don´t see the negative effects of a bad PCB layout.
You don´t see the effects of a missing power supply decoupling capacitor. You (usually) don´t see when an XTAL circuit does not oscillate (or oscillates with the worng frequency).
So the simulation gives good results .... but then on a bad PCB layout .... or missing capacitors ... it´s likely that the circuit explodes.
Or especially with (your) switching power application ... yu are not aware of very short voltage spikes when a transistor switches OFF.
And it may work fine .. .maby for weeks ... but the spikes may slowly kill the IC inside isolation barrier .. and you see your circuit fail after weeks or month of (apparently) working fine.

This does not mean simulation is a bad thing. Nor do I want somebody discourage from using simulation.
They bring a big benefit - especially for less experienced designers. Or if the designer eneters a new field of electronics.
One can play around, test this and that .. see the influence. And for all this you don´t need to buy all the ICs and other parts ... and you don´t see an semiconductor to explode.

Klaus

--- Updated Sep 28, 2024 ---

Again: this 1.5V is just nominal battery voltage. In realit the voltage may be higher when very new ... but the voltage will drop:
* with rising load current
* with change of temperture
* with age
* with charging state

Sooner or later they will go down to 0V.
Maybe they work satisfactory down to 1.2V ... but after this they gow down very fast.
And if you continue to draw current .. they may even leak out an etchy fluid.

Klaus

fancy designing me a PCB?? with the proper component positioning and placement I would appreciate it! and I know about power spikes and FET's if you look at the circuit you will know that there is protection for that as well