Do I need both? If I operate IR2110 with 12 volt?No ! a shifter needed between these sections ! ( between micro and main driver ! ) 5 to the 15 !
I was talking about the max voltage which will be available at the Transformer output. Say, input voltage is 12v, trans ratio is 34; so, output voltage=12*34=408goldsmith said:No ! if your topology is push pull the stress across the DS will be 2vm ! 2*325 ! ( at least ) .
As i can remember it's input circuitry is cmos ! so 5 volts can be considered as zero ! not one ! . so both of them are required !Do I need both? If I operate IR2110 with 12 volt?
Who told this ? don't forget that the out put filter should be LC filter ( at least 2nd order and butterworth ) so if the load be higher than normalized impedance of that filter , it can increase the voltage nearby some kilo volts ! is that reasonable ? or when you have overload ! it will decrease ! so you will need feed back from 2nd section tot he first section ! hence your out put voltage should be a bit more than that to create ability of voltage compensation ! by fed path !In this case, duty cycle has to be around 80% to get avg voltage 325v to be used as inverter input.
My topology is Bridge. Could you please tell a little more on DS and 2Vm? After filtering the converter output, the voltage will be 325v.goldsmith said:No ! if your topology is push pull the stress across the DS will be 2vm ! 2*325 ! ( at least ) .
Okay, understoodHi sam
As i can remember it's input circuitry is cmos ! so 5 volts can be considered as zero ! not one ! . so both of them are required !
Yet to design filter as you suggested to make converter part first. For feedback design, I've considered that there is a inverter and the output of the inverter is sine wave. As the inverter terminal voltage is needed to make nearly constant at any load condition, feedback has been taken from there. Here I'm attaching the block diagram of the total inverter system (12v DC to 230v AC). Please check and suggest if there is any mistake.goldsmith said:Who told this ? don't forget that the out put filter should be LC filter ( at least 2nd order and butterworth ) so if the load be higher than normalized impedance of that filter , it can increase the voltage nearby some kilo volts ! is that reasonable ? or when you have overload ! it will decrease ! so you will need feed back from 2nd section tot he first section ! hence your out put voltage should be a bit more than that to create ability of voltage compensation ! by fed path !
Take a look at here , please :My topology is Bridge. Could you please tell a little more on DS and 2Vm? After filtering the converter output, the voltage will be 325v.
Thanks...
Will it be so much variable compare to the voltage at converter output?And about feedback , i know out put voltage is AC but you should divide it with some resistors ( 2 ) and then rectify and filter it , it will be a variable DC voltage as your feedback for first stage .
This is Modified SPWM https://www.edaboard.com/threads/260091/. Does it seem to be nearer to three level inverter? Dear Goldsmith, generating such waveform should not be complected to me using microcontroller. :smile:Sam , what you are doing ? modified sine wave ? your diagram is for a three level SPWM inverter . i don't think it is necessary to use three level method for this simple aim .
Best Wishes
Goldsmith
Hi samWill it be so much variable compare to the voltage at converter output?
I know it is pretty simple to create that waveform . i have designed many inverters based on differentiating SPWM , until now . most important issue will be select a proper stage for power stage . to obtain this waveform . ( you will have at least 4 choice ! ) .This is Modified SPWM Modified sinusoidal PWM. Does it seem to be nearer to three level inverter? Dear Goldsmith, generating such waveform should not be complected to me using microcontroller.
It would be better if you could please tell a little more...I know it is pretty simple to create that waveform . i have designed many inverters based on differentiating SPWM , until now . most important issue will be select a proper stage for power stage . to obtain this waveform . ( you will have at least 4 choice ! ) .
but the only thing that i can't understand here is why you are trying to use a differential SPWM for this simple aim ? because you will need two filter in power stage . and complicated feedback loop ! you have to take a differentiated feedback ! which will be complicated for you , i think ! but if you use a simple link inverter it's THD will be still negligible and of course it's feedback loop won't be complicated ! i couldn't understand what is your application until now . but if you want make that three level , no problem ! you can decrease speed of loop and use that rectifier idea . thus it will be pretty simple .
Good luck
Goldsmith
Certainly ! you can create two SPWM with messages out of phase together and them get each section to an arm of an H bridge ! and thus the out put wave before filtering will be exactly as you expected !It would be better if you could please tell a little more...
I see , an i know you want learn each thing complete ! it is pretty good and i believe that you will earn success in this process ! ( with hope to the G-O-D )My aim is to make a good Inverter practically and learn detail on it as much as possible. After making this I will test with different load conditions. If everything seems okay, I'll use it my house. But main aim is learning...
i told you the best way for feed back in this case is a rectified feed back . and about two filters i think you are referring to the out put power filters before your load ? right ? if yes , each differential SPWM inverter will need two filter to create enough simultaneously thus mathematically both signals will be the same thus subtract of them will be zero but you will have -vsin/2 and + vsin/2 that will consequence , Vsin !(1) Why it will need differentiated feedback and two filters?
Sam , do you know what is the meaning behind words " high frequency link inverter " ? the process that i have told you for many times called high frequency link inverter ( first section with DC /DC converter and a transformer ( link , here ) and a simple SPWM . it will have low THD too ( you can be sure about lower than 0.1 percent if you correctly and carefully design it ! but as you decided to use a three level SPWM ,(2) Simple link inverter means simple sine PWM? Please suggest the gate waveform that have negligible THD.
Sam , listen carefully ! the waveform that you need can't be achieved with a simple H bridge ! it will be a bit difference and it is kind of multilevel inverter ! ( three level ) . i told you the simplest way but you told me you want to design it ! and i told you i will help you ! because you are interested in three level method !(3) I do not want to make multi level inverter. I wanted to give the SPWM (as per the previously attached figure) gate signal in the MOSFETs connected in H-Bridge configuration.
Of course ! a rectifier will create a little delay ! and a filter will create another delay too . and this path will affect the first stage it means one stage will have another delay too ! . but in your aim it is not important !4) Could you please tell a little more about "decrease speed of loop"?
Dear sam,My topology is Bridge. Could you please tell a little more on DS and 2Vm? After filtering the converter output, the voltage will be 325v.
12v DC to 230v AC inverter block diagram -
View attachment 78448
First block "Converter (50kHz)" means the Full Bridge converter at 50kHz operating frequency with a ferrite core transformer.
I think you didn't pay attention to things that i have told ! do you know how will be the behavior of a butterworth filter ? and do you know what will happen if the value of load will be higher or lower than normalized impedance of that filter ??! i think you don't know it ! hence you will need a closed loop .Dear sam,
There is is no need to take feed back after the inverter as mentioned in the block diagram you can take a sample from the 325 dc itself, If you keep the 325v dc steady the output voltage of the inverter will be automatically steady since your 325v H bridge is directly driving the load.
regards ani
My understanding is - one filter is for 230v, 50Hz output another one is for rectification and filtration of 230v AC to be used as feedback. Am I right now?i told you the best way for feed back in this case is a rectified feed back . and about two filters i think you are referring to the out put power filters before your load ? right ? if yes , each differential SPWM inverter will need two filter to create enough simultaneously thus mathematically both signals will be the same thus subtract of them will be zero but you will have -vsin/2 and + vsin/2 that will consequence , Vsin !
Yes, understood. I want to make an Inverter with lowest possible THD along with highest possible efficiency. :smile: Please suggest...Sam , do you know what is the meaning behind words " high frequency link inverter " ? the process that i have told you for many times called high frequency link inverter ( first section with DC /DC converter and a transformer ( link , here ) and a simple SPWM . it will have low THD too ( you can be sure about lower than 0.1 percent if you correctly and carefully design it ! but as you decided to use a three level SPWM ,
i think it is better that i guide you in your desired path .
Sam , listen carefully ! the waveform that you need can't be achieved with a simple H bridge ! it will be a bit difference and it is kind of multilevel inverter ! ( three level ) . i told you the simplest way but you told me you want to design it ! and i told you i will help you ! because you are interested in three level method !
Understood the delay issue. What is impact of such delay and where it is important?Of course ! a rectifier will create a little delay ! and a filter will create another delay too . and this path will affect the first stage it means one stage will have another delay too ! . but in your aim it is not important !
You will have two filter for your special H bridge . and then an auxiliary filter ( low power filter ) for feedback path after rectification the fed signal .My understanding is - one filter is for 230v, 50Hz output another one is for rectification and filtration of 230v AC to be used as feedback. Am I right now?
thus this method is ok .Yes, understood. I want to make an Inverter with lowest possible THD along with highest possible efficiency. Please suggest...
No ! why you have thought this ? just an H bridge ! but you will have two SPWM . with different messages . and then not of each other ( inverted of each other . ) and then a dead time creation ! and then two mosfet driver . you will have right H side and L side and Left H side and L side . right H side will be SPWM A and right L side will be the inverted signal of SPWMA . and left section : H side SPWMB and L side inverted SPWM B . but don't forget that dead time is most important thing in these inverters .Three level inverter will require 3 set of H Bridge MOSFET arrangement. Right? Please suggest simplest method to get lowest possible THD and also tell something about 3 level method.
In AC Current sources with high frequency and in transmitters ! and more other things !Understood the delay issue. What is impact of such delay and where it is important?
Hi goldsmith,Hi Ani
I think you didn't pay attention to things that i have told ! do you know how will be the behavior of a butterworth filter ? and do you know what will happen if the value of load will be higher or lower than normalized impedance of that filter ??! i think you don't know it ! hence you will need a closed loop .
Best Wishes
Goldsmith
Let me open the words ! for out put stage you will have a butter worth LC 2nd order filter . to separate message signal from SPWM . this filter will have a normalized impedance . but your load isn't constant . thus it can increase the out put or decrease it . so instability is for this stage not first stage ! but first stage can compensate this problem ! i hope you got the idea .I did not mean to say that the feed back is not necessary. The feed back for the smps is a must but what i told is that you can take it(feed back) from 325v Dc sample(after the filter) instead of taking it(feed back) from the output of
Sam , may i give you an advice ? if yes , and if it is your first time to design an inverter , i suggest you to start with a usual two level inverter with low power and then you can go through this one ! i have mentioned this because of avoiding from consuming your money and of course your time . in wrong path . then you will have enough experience to do this project . but it is also possible that you be disagree with me .
Okay, thanks. I can use MOSFET driver IR2110 to do the same. right?
I want to use microcontroller for both the sections (converter & inverter). Here I was describing the converter section taking feedback from the inverter output. i.e the terminal voltage to be connected to the loads. In this case I considered rms voltage.
Peak voltage will reach 400v and higher. This peak voltage needs to be considered to chose semiconductor devices (e.g, MOSFET). Right?
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