12v power fastest transient response solution

[falken1208]

I noticed when I recording electric guitar through audio interface. the result is heavily affected by power transient response. dont know why my ac mains are very slow and my waveform is not sharp. im now looking for offline fast transient response 12v power solution? do you have any idea?

 

[barry]

How do you even know this is a “ transient” problem? Maybe it’s a distortion problem?

 

[betwixt]

Simple check - use a 12V battery (car battery for example) instead of your power supply. It would take an extraordinary change in load to make the voltage change. Let us know if it fixes the problem, even if it isn't a permanent solution.

Brian.

 

[Easy peasy]

some amplifier in the chain from the guitar pickup to the PC is clipping - that much is clear from the pictures

all else from the OP holds little meaning.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

The lack of detail is delaying your solution.

 

[dick_freebird]

Another thought - maybe this is about "playing style"
and input frequency response, allowing "slapping"
to impart a large LF high amplitude "bump" that
exceeds designed output load power and sags supply.

Maybe this is all simply solved by a high pass filter
that sits below lowest string fundamental frequency
but blocks "subsonics" that have no business in the
audio signal chain.

 

[betwixt]

Could be but a guitar pre-amp would normally be class-A and probably draw less than 100mA, probably a lot less than that. Even a very modest power supply should cope with no voltage regulation issues.

Brian.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

It should not be hard to define the real problem. PSRR or power supply rejection ratio can be defined to find an easy solution if the problem is well-defined.

 

[Easy peasy]

OP is confusing excess gain with the large pos ( and neg ) transient when the signal curves up fast - as seen in the pics provided.

 

[falken1208]

Simple check - use a 12V battery (car battery for example) instead of your power supply. It would take an extraordinary change in load to make the voltage change. Let us know if it fixes the problem, even if it isn't a permanent solution.

Brian.

no I tried 12v car battery and 9v dry battery, cannot compete with good ac power. but offen in resident area power quality is not as good as mixed used place for some reason（chinese people live in apartment not house so we use large transformer for whole community,

at the beginning I thought it was because voltage noise. harmonic noise. I tried balanced power and analog amplified regenerative power （is that the name）to create pure sine wave power with little noise. but result is still awlful.

I know if the power source sounds bad, I cannot treat it to make it better.

I think there must be one spec in power can change my guitar recording.

after many test, on different audio interfaces, computers and guitars, I promise the recording quality is only associated with power source, the better power the better sound. I dont know if this happen on keyboard and micphone or not, but it is happening on my guitar recording.

and I could hear some place in china the ac main power is correct. but most place I live the ac power is not correct. voltage noise matters, but I know how much it could change the result. and I can treat noise very well now.

I checked the recording waveform carefully and found the difference between good and bad tone. the wave in good tone are much steeper and voltage goes up faster.if the waveform of sound in daw means voltage change?

car battery is pure power without noise. donot work. and any isolation in power chain will make my recording signal weaker. i mean if i use isolation in power 220v to 220v. my sound waveform will be thinner. what is the difference between 220v and isolated 220v? does the transformer wire swallows my energy?

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

the whole description "technically" makes no sense.

Klaus

 

[betwixt]

I agree Klaus.

We are absolutely sympathetic to your problem falken1208 but if wired correctly the power source should have no noticeable effect on the sound quality. It WOULD have an effect if you were driving high power through loudspeakers because most power amplifiers use class AB where the current consumption increases with loudness but you are referring to a recording amplifier where the power will be a few thousands of one Watt at most. If the power source is varying randomly, not in time with your guitar sounds, it would imply the power supply was not regulated properly. That is why I suggested trying it with a car battery which should have rock steady voltage under such a small load.

Can you sketch a diagram of exactly how you have the guitar, amplifier and power supply connected please, it will help us diagnose the problem.

Brian.

 

[barry]

There's no way (that I know of) that "good" AC power is going to perform better than DC from a battery. Remember, your "good AC" is going to be converted to DC at some point.

 

[falken1208]

I agree Klaus.

We are absolutely sympathetic to your problem falken1208 but if wired correctly the power source should have no noticeable effect on the sound quality. It WOULD have an effect if you were driving high power through loudspeakers because most power amplifiers use class AB where the current consumption increases with loudness but you are referring to a recording amplifier where the power will be a few thousands of one Watt at most. If the power source is varying randomly, not in time with your guitar sounds, it would imply the power supply was not regulated properly. That is why I suggested trying it with a car battery which should have rock steady voltage under such a small load.

Can you sketch a diagram of exactly how you have the guitar, amplifier and power supply connected please, it will help us diagnose the problem.

Brian.

i ab tested 48v to 12v dc-dc vs. 12v battery straight in. the result is amazing. it is as the same as this picture says. 48 to 12v is faster than native 12v. which leads to better recording performance

--- Updated Dec 11, 2024 ---

I agree Klaus.

We are absolutely sympathetic to your problem falken1208 but if wired correctly the power source should have no noticeable effect on the sound quality. It WOULD have an effect if you were driving high power through loudspeakers because most power amplifiers use class AB where the current consumption increases with loudness but you are referring to a recording amplifier where the power will be a few thousands of one Watt at most. If the power source is varying randomly, not in time with your guitar sounds, it would imply the power supply was not regulated properly. That is why I suggested trying it with a car battery which should have rock steady voltage under such a small load.

Can you sketch a diagram of exactly how you have the guitar, amplifier and power supply connected please, it will help us diagnose the problem.

Brian.

diagram attached. after 5 years test. I promise the final sound quality is only based on the power source no matter ac or dc. The best power would be 220v generator direct to my house. But I don't know what compensation they have done after transform 10kva to 220v over there on street.

--- Updated Dec 11, 2024 ---

Becaus

some amplifier in the chain from the guitar pickup to the PC is clipping - that much is clear from the pictures

all else from the OP holds little meaning.

Because i use active pickup with 9v battery it clips inside the pickup. All recordings with that pickup have the same cliping waveform.

--- Updated Dec 11, 2024 ---

Becaus

some amplifier in the chain from the guitar pickup to the PC is clipping - that much is clear from the pictures

all else from the OP holds little meaning.

Because i use active pickup with 9v battery it clips inside the pickup. All recordings with that pickup have the same cliping waveform.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

I wouldn´t be surprised if the earth was flat...

Klaus

 

[betwixt]

I don't play guitar but if I did and it swallowed 50A ( = 600Watts) I would have to strum with asbestos gloves.

Brian.

 

[barry]

You seem to be confusing clipping with transient response.

Your plot with the mysterious red line shows clipping. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH TRANSIENT RESPONSE.

You don't show any voltage scale on your plots, so it's impossible to infer much from that. Maybe your 12 volt battery doesn't have enough current capacity (although I doubt that's the problem)

Maybe you could show a plot of your power supply rail along with your output waveform. With voltage and time scale.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

This looks like you do not have a good explanation for your symptoms. If you can show a block diagram with all the power , signal and ground connections. i suspect you have common mode ground noise that needs to be bypassed or balanced out. Can you sketch and post it?

 

[falken1208]

This looks like you do not have a good explanation for your symptoms. If you can show a block diagram with all the power , signal and ground connections. i suspect you have common mode ground noise that needs to be bypassed or balanced out. Can you sketch and post it?

I could only draw this diagram. no computer I could hear its not correct

--- Updated Dec 14, 2024 ---

This looks like you do not have a good explanation for your symptoms. If you can show a block diagram with all the power , signal and ground connections. i suspect you have common mode ground noise that needs to be bypassed or balanced out. Can you sketch and post it?

I could only draw this diagram. no computer I could hear its not correct

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

Are all wires in pairs like this or shielded? Where is your 0V reference?
I see all wires as antennae. So to make "poor" reception on these "antennae, requires care. (Shields, shunt filters, guitar balun to balance it etc.)

If signal impedance is higher than return then it is called "unbalanced", then a common-mode interference can create a differential signal from your wire pair induces by outside interference like line transients. Meanwhile you show no direct connections to the line or Protective Earth (PE);ground.

If you are not near AC Protective earth, you may need to shield everything and make the battery -ve your ground. You may also need a 1:1 transformer for the guitar.

I assume your amplifier is a commercial product and not a DIY problem missing something fundamental.

For experiments, connect your hand or finger tip to an earth ground ( PE grounded electric stovetop or similar ) and use other hand to make your battery powered guitar amp pickup the problem to make it worse and/or better. This tells me where it is sensitive and suppresses CM noise.

Then report results.

 

[falken1208]

Are all wires in pairs like this or shielded? Where is your 0V reference?
I see all wires as antennae. So to make "poor" reception on these "antennae, requires care. (Shields, shunt filters, guitar balun to balance it etc.)

If signal impedance is higher than return then it is called "unbalanced", then a common-mode interference can create a differential signal from your wire pair induces by outside interference like line transients. Meanwhile you show no direct connections to the line or Protective Earth (PE);ground.

If you are not near AC Protective earth, you may need to shield everything and make the battery -ve your ground. You may also need a 1:1 transformer for the guitar.

I assume your amplifier is a commercial product and not a DIY problem missing something fundamental.

For experiments, connect your hand to an earth ground ( electric stovetop or similar ) and use other hand to make your battery powered guitar amp pickup the problem to make it worse and/or better. This tells me where it is sensitive.

Then report results.

1.guitar signal is unbalanced and you are talking about DI box to make it balanced signal, I tried , useless. the high-z input on interface are designed with 1m ohm impedance spacially for guitar. but you said wireless interference, I would say maybe, but it seem not change a little alone with where I recorded, even I go cross the cities and moved 500 miles away. I thinik if its wireless noise, it could at least change when I start to move. and every people record guitar by guitar cable. I have tried different cables. not the problem.
2. my situation is more like a constant noise come with signal. if I dont play a note, there is almost no noise . I turn guitar volume all the way up, and hands on strings, guitar is grounded to my body, in my recording softwere, there is zero noise signal level.
3. I tried isolator inbetween guitar cable, inbetween 220v ac. in between 12v dc non of them could improve my problem
4. I connect battery or guitar metal parts direct to 3 pin socket ground to earth. no improvement.
5. the audio interface come with 2 pin Psu, which means the designer dont think it needs to ground.
6. the only improvement I have seen, is when I move all my gears from apartment to a commercial place. which means they has their own 10kv transformer for small building not like residential area. extremely much much better. I know its much more clean and strong ac power. but pure clean battery cannot do that . Im confused.

--- Updated Dec 14, 2024 ---

Are all wires in pairs like this or shielded? Where is your 0V reference?
I see all wires as antennae. So to make "poor" reception on these "antennae, requires care. (Shields, shunt filters, guitar balun to balance it etc.)

If signal impedance is higher than return then it is called "unbalanced", then a common-mode interference can create a differential signal from your wire pair induces by outside interference like line transients. Meanwhile you show no direct connections to the line or Protective Earth (PE);ground.

If you are not near AC Protective earth, you may need to shield everything and make the battery -ve your ground. You may also need a 1:1 transformer for the guitar.

I assume your amplifier is a commercial product and not a DIY problem missing something fundamental.

For experiments, connect your hand or finger tip to an earth ground ( PE grounded electric stovetop or similar ) and use other hand to make your battery powered guitar amp pickup the problem to make it worse and/or better. This tells me where it is sensitive and suppresses CM noise.

Then report results.

people told me high impedance signal is sensitive to wireless noise， it is like antenna. if there is no signal on guitar cable. there is no noise at all. if guitar produced a little voltage. what wireless noise could go with that little voltage？

--- Updated Dec 14, 2024 ---

sorry im wrong 48 v or faster power cannot solve my problem

I don't play guitar but if I did and it swallowed 50A ( = 600Watts) I would have to strum with asbestos gloves.

Brian.