[Moved from Analog Design]: Flat antenna design

[Aussie Susan]

There is a whole separate type of mag-loop antenna that Amateur Radio people use that can deliver good performance with much smaller antenna. However these tend to work in the HF region and even there are about 1 metre in diameter (although I've seen some that are smaller in the 20-30cm range)
Susan

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

CAN IT be both resonance for those frequencies for actuate detection and nonresonant for to cover 1K-50K FQ range.

No. The answer is no. It can't be used non-resonant. And even when used resonant, the efficiency is extremely bad at this size.

 

[FvM]

No. The answer is no. It can't be used non-resonant. And even when used resonant, the efficiency is extremely bad at this size.

Of course a coil can be used non-resonant, with a mostly reactant impedance. Many magnetic "receivers" and some "transmitters" are operating this way. The question is about signal-to-noise ratio and intended field strength, parameters that haven't been specified, not even rudimentarily.

So the same coil is used for receiving and transmitting ''playback''. Got it.

I already guessed that "playback" was meant this way, unfortunately lacking any serious specification.

A basic problem, besides field-strength considerations, is this:

An AC magnetical field of a source located at point A is recorded at point B by your coil. You can never reproduce the same field by a single coil at point B.

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

Of course a coil can be used non-resonant, with a mostly reactant impedance. Many magnetic "receivers" and some "transmitters" are operating this way. The question is about signal-to-noise ratio and intended field strength, parameters that haven't been specified, not even rudimentarily.

You are right: a coil can be used wideband to create a local magnetic field, but it will be extremely extremely extremely inefficient as an "antenna". What cybertron tries to do seems impossible (not practical) to me.

 

[cybertron]

FvW

An AC magnetical field of a source located at point A is recorded at point B by your coil. You can never reproduce the same field by a single coil at point B.

I don't think you are so right about that.

This is where I think a resonance frequency tuned circuit
comes in to fine tuning the frequencies that I mentioned
in post #10 and #11.

This is where testing comes in to play.And Fine tuning
the signal being picked up and play back.And using
an oscilloscope will see if the signals are recorded.

Can any one help with a resonance combination non-resonance circuit. Or some circuit I could use with some modification to get a circuit that would work.

 

[Aussie Susan]

FvW
I don't think you are so right about that.

Take a simple analogy: there is a circle and you measure a point on the circumference. Given that point, you now try to re-create the original circle. You can't as you do not have enough information.
OK - take 2 points: now you can create a number of circles with the only certainty begin that the centres lie on a line that passes the mid-point of the 2 measurement points.
You need 3 points to uniquely define a circle.
Relating this back to the original problem: you are measuring a magnetic (or other) field at one point. That tells you the magnitude of the field at that one point. However that tells you nothing about the strength of the source and how far away it is, nor in what direction. You need to also measure the direction of the field which gives you 2 pieces of information but still does not tell you all you need to know to recreate the source.
The bottom line is that you need to measure at more than one location to determine the source.
Susan

 

[cybertron]

Take a simple analogy: there is a circle and you measure a point on the circumference. Given that point, you now try to re-create the original circle. You can't as you do not have enough information.
OK - take 2 points: now you can create a number of circles with the only certainty begin that the centres lie on a line that passes the mid-point of the 2 measurement points.
You need 3 points to uniquely define a circle.
Relating this back to the original problem: you are measuring a magnetic (or other) field at one point. That tells you the magnitude of the field at that one point. However that tells you nothing about the strength of the source and how far away it is, nor in what direction. You need to also measure the direction of the field which gives you 2 pieces of information but still does not tell you all you need to know to recreate the source.
The bottom line is that you need to measure at more than one location to determine the source.
Susan

I'm not talking about circles. You are. ? I need real help. Not personal comments that doesn't even help me one bit. Not babble talk.

What I need is a non-resonance or resonant circuit or a schematic to what I'm trying to do.

 

[Aussie Susan]

The point (which did not involve any personal comments as far as I can tell) is that you can ask for a schematic all you want, but if what you have told us you are asking for is not possible then you will not get the answer that you desire.
Susan

 

[cybertron]

The point (which did not involve any personal comments as far as I can tell) is that you can ask for a schematic all you want, but if what you have told us you are asking for is not possible then you will not get the answer that you desire.
Susan

And that's why I need an experience ''Engineer'' to help. It seems no one on here has the expertise to understand what I need or doing.
If you did you might of answered in the first few post.
And what help have you given. NONE? So you don't have any positive help to give or experience.Just your meaning less comments that does not help at all.

I also given you the question and answer in post #16 what I'm doing.ON your XY BABBLE COMMENTS.

This is what I mean? You don't understand what I need or have the experience in what I'm doing.
And This is why you can't give me any positive help.

It's not possible to you. Because you don't understand or have the experience. And who's talking about whistlers. NOT ME. DID I EVER MENTION THAT. NO?

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

And that's why I need an experience ''Engineer'' to help.

Great. If you believe that your circuit can be implemented, get a budget and hire a consultant.

And what help have you given. NONE?

We spent enough time to show you the difficulties, but you didn't get the point. So we have to realize that we wasted our time.

 

[Aussie Susan]

And that's why I need an experience ''Engineer'' to help.

So my 40 years as a professional engineer doesn't count? Plus my 45+ years as a radio amateur dealing with antennas and signal analysis for a range of frequencies?
I wish you well in your endeavors - remember that the "pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their backs" and great advances can come from people who succeed in creating what others say cannot be done.
Susan