What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying off

[gigahertz]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

There has been a lot of consolidation and some products disappeared, so as of May 2010, what are the main professional grade programs available?

In no particular order, here is what seems to be the most current list:

1. Mentor Graphics PADS
2. Mentor Graphics Expedition
3. Cadence Allegro
4. Altium
5. Zuken CR5000

And here is a list of who seems to be dying off:

1. Intercept
2. Pulsonix
3. Zuken Cadstar
4. Orcad
5. Mentor Graphics Board Station

Added after 2 minutes:

sorry, forgot to add this: others please share your opinions

not debating which is better or worse; just a list of those that seem to be gaining share and those losing share

 

[FvM]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

just a list of those that seem to be gaining share and those losing share

I wonder, if you're list is based on any verifiable objectives? If so you may want to undisclose the sources.

 

[gigahertz]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

I'm just looking to buy a copy or two and want to be sure I get something that won't die off like what happened to Supermax DDE ... that was a great program, but Mentor Graphics bought and killed it.

As far as the one's that are on my list as dying off, I base that on my many failed ateempts to reach out to these companies to find out more. They make it so hard to buy from that one must wonder if they really want to sell and maybe something else is going on.

I think we all can agree that Boardstation is a dying dinosaur.

My big concerns with Cadence is just take a look at their financials which are all public knowledge

 

[911EDA]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

Our designers at 911EDA support just about every package out there.

Currently, nearly 75% of all our PCB layout work is being done in Altium. 10% of these are being imported into Altium from Protel and/or PCAD (which often requires a significant clean-up effort).

10-12% of our work is being done using PADs and 10-12% is being done using Allegro.

Protel, PCAD, Zuken, CADStar, OrCAD, and BoardStation are rarely used or asked about in our experience.

I think that Altium for both schematic and layout, PADs/OrCAD combo, and Allegro are the tools that are going to be around and really take over the market.

Ryan O'Connor
911EDA, Inc.
www.911pcb.com

 

[PCBWING]

Things are always changing. Some software may only be acquired by another company, its products and technologies in new products also continued.

 

[gigahertz]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

Our designers at 911EDA support just about every package out there.

Currently, nearly 75% of all our PCB layout work is being done in Altium. 10% of these are being imported into Altium from Protel and/or PCAD (which often requires a significant clean-up effort).

10-12% of our work is being done using PADs and 10-12% is being done using Allegro.

Protel, PCAD, Zuken, CADStar, OrCAD, and BoardStation are rarely used or asked about in our experience.

I think that Altium for both schematic and layout, PADs/OrCAD combo, and Allegro are the tools that are going to be around and really take over the market.

Ryan O'Connor
911EDA, Inc.
www.911pcb.com

Thank you Ryan, that was a very helpful answer since you have a company. I'm just a one man show, so hearing your input was very valuable. Thanks again.

 

[sapphire_2010]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

hi all

Technology is going advance day by day so EDA(CAD/CAE) tools maker are updating PCB softwares very freqently. But as far as main PCB programs is concerned i think it depends upon your requirments . If you require a very high frequency, differntial signal , equal delay requirement and blind burried via board with lots of constraint then you must need some high end tool. following are the program which i personally think are the best to use for complex designs.

1- CadenceAllegro
2- Mentor Graphic PADS
3- Altium
3- CadStar
4- PCAD (dying)
5- Protel (dying)
6-Orcad (dying)

I personally think Cadence Allegro is the best tool. I my self is using Allegro, Altium/PCAD successfully.

regards
SA

 

[TeamAllegro]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

OrCAD is still going strong. The Layout package is a lower tier of Allegro PCB Editor (Cadence owns OrCAD). The OrCAD schematic package tool (Capture) is the most popular on the market.

 

[gigahertz]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

OrCAD is still going strong. The Layout package is a lower tier of Allegro PCB Editor (Cadence owns OrCAD). The OrCAD schematic package tool (Capture) is the most popular on the market.

Is Orcad being transitioned out to be discontinued? I notice Cadence renamed their Orcad CIS to Cadence Allegro SBP CIS. They are identical programs, but just different names. It has me wondering if that means Orcad layout is going to get phased out too, but who knows

Thank you all for the feedback

 

[kushmayank12]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

Hi All,

Actually it is a useless topic " Which is the best software In the Market ?"
It should not be like which software i have used is Best n rest is useless it depend on several factors like cast, time and requirement of the design.

For Chipper cast and smooth ans simple design we can use Zuken CADSTAR OR PADS OR Partal of course some others are also there , above are very user friendly and direct tool that anyone or a new person can perform their tasks also these are very flexible and time saving tools .

For High end and sophisticated design CR5000, ALTIUM, EXPEDITION and allegro can be use. these tools having some additional feature that will help you for maintaining you work for future jobs also you can reuse those things in some other design.

Here is the end of software war " ALL are Good at their place"


Thanks & Regards,
Mayank Singh

 

[free_electron]

The tools i encounter in my daily work are Expedition, Mentor DxDesigner and Altium (Which i use. I picked it up when it was called Autotrax and ran under dos. I've had every version of that tool)

Orcad has been killed by cadence. they sent us a 'dear john' letter basically telling us to shell out tens of thousands for their tools. For the cost of one licence we outfitted all our designer with Altium and each got a top notch quadcore pc dual widescreen monitors and Quadro graphics card on top. we still had enough money leftover to buy everyone icecream.

All the other stuff is dissapearing or has disappeared.

I make a differnece between schematic/pcb drawing and design tools. Eagle , diptrace, Autotrax are 'drawing' tools that bring little or no design capabilty to the table ( no simulation , no fpga , no ip cores , no signal integrity , no impedance control, no compilers , no 3d mechanical interfacing, no procurement interfacing , no gerber editor.)

Only very few tools or toolchains are actual Design tools and thos tend to be -very- pricey.

 

[gigahertz]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

Hi All,

Actually it is a useless topic " Which is the best software In the Market ?"


Thanks & Regards,
Mayank Singh

Actually, it's a very useful topic when one is considering making a big investment, and your the one that mentioned "Which is the best software in the Market?"

My question was very clear and related to soliciting opinion of which companies seem to have "staying power". I'll determine on my own what is best for my application, but I prefer to zero in on places that seem like they will be around for awhile

 

[Mattylad]

Re: What are the main PCB programs now? And which are dying

IMO CADSTAR is not dying.

In fact its getting bigger, the problem being is that the world has just (and still is) in a recession so many PCB software companies have been having a hard time and if you are looking for a software solution for your PCB needs then there are many things to consider including the support, maintenance, upgrades, library support, the way that the software fits in with your precise needs (not the fancy stuff the salespeople throw at you).

However it all still comes down to the price. not the cost but the price because it is the bean counters that pay the price & us that pay the cost.

There are some good offers being made on some of the software at the moment as companies are trying to get struggling companies to stump up money on new software, but it's not just the software cost it also needs to include the training, support & maintenance etc.

All software has it's problems, niggles & things it does not do but which of them does what you need it to do?

 

[fantomf4]

Altium seems to have hit a soft spot between a price ~ $ 5000 and performance. They bought Protel couple years ago and killed their own P-CAD.
Mentor graphics is relaly well designed and can handle many areas, but just not worth the money. As I am not using other software, can't give you my opinion.

 

[marce]

YAWN:-o
There is a document done by PCB Matrix crew that shows a history of PCB CAD packages and how they have changed hands or disapeared over the years, this may have re-apeared on Mentors site!
If you are going to comment on PCB CAD and what is disapearing It would also be worth re-searching:
The EDA comapanies.
The histroy of the various packages etc.

For instance Cadence since their failed take over of Mentor, have had a new board, laid off more than a quarter of their workforce and had a pretty bad couple of years, under the new board they are getting back on track. NASDAQ $9-79
Mentor, are currently having fun with Carl Icahn. NASDAQ $15.00

Zuken, big big big in Aisa, how are current events in Japan going to affect the company, I dont know, but like the other two big players, they are big enought to ride the storm. Nikkei 698JPY

Worldwide the big three are the ones listed above, in no paticular order, the most recent report is the Gary Smith EDA report. Again looking at most of the posts they are based on emotional more than factual evidence (IMO). If you work for a bureau that uses one tool, you dont get to hear about other tools, as often, so presume that other tools arn't used as much.

 

[luben111]

I vote for Altium. I used to work with ORCAD which is dying now (after Cadence refused to continue building any new versions). So if you're beginner - don't start with ORCAD

 

[marce]

Why Altium?

 

[luben111]

well, compared to some programs Altium looks more complex so if you're beginner probably you will struggle to get ride on it. But once you feel comfortable with Altium you'll appreciate the great power of the program. Of course many things in Altium could be improved but there is simply no such thing as "perfect PCB software". I used to work a lot with ORCAD and can now clearly say that Altium is better than ORCAD, there are simply countless number of improvements in ALtium compared to ORCAD.

Some dark sides of ALtium:
1. Many things could be improved in routing, especially the big numbers of small segments that last after moving tracks. ORCAD has Autoclean feature
2. DXF import to polygones in Altium is painful especially with complex shapes

 

[marce]

I was being slightly rhetorical, sorry, again we base our recomendations on personal bias, which is why I havn't suggested any software, as I know my opinion is biased.
What I will say is that from questions asked on this Forum, I belive that PCB designers do not get the training required for todays modern PCB's. It always seems to be the poor relation in the electronics world, yet becomes the most critical part of any electronic assembly, so the opinion is in a lot of cases that anyone can lay out a PCB with half an hours training.
With the requirements of high speed designs, this view is slowly changing and maybe one day as designers we may be taken seriously.
So more important than the package you work on is the training you get on that package, IMO.
Have Fun
Marc

 

[luben111]

I agree with Marce - it's important what kind of training you can get for this particular software. Altium has really good tutorials so theoretically if you're young, brave and dedicated man you should be able after 2 months hard learning to route complex boards. Unfortunately the reality is different - it could take years if you're not trained properly before you can do complex designs.