Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a glove box

[neazoi]

Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Hi, I want to make a glove box for soldering inside the house with closed windows and so avoiding the chemicals associated with soldering (solder fumes and lead/lead-free metals on hands).

Initially, I thought of bringing air inside the box, using a tube, from outside and having a second tube to put air out of the box as well. However, this requires opening two holes in the window or in the wall of the house, which I do not want.

So I have thought of making a big glove box without any openings or tubes and leave the solder fumes inside as I solder. Then when I finish soldering, move the glove box outside and open it, so that the trapped fumes can get out. Or alternatively, I could include a simple fan solder fume extractor with carbon filters inside the box.

There may be problems with this approach, such as:
The fumes may stick on the surface of the glove box and reduce it's visibility.
The trapped fumes may stick onto the PCBs of the equipment inside the blove box (eg. temperature controlled iron) and damage them.

That is why, I need to find, how the fumes behave when they are hot and when they cool down?

The only hint I have is a responce of enother member who said:

"Most of the fume produced during soldering will condense when cooled and very little of the smoke will remain once the "fume" gets cooled; either by mixing with cold air or just by getting diluted. A part of the fume will not condense; they have the solvent in the flux paste."

Please help?

 

[betwixt]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

It looks to be an expensive and over-complicated solution to me. The main problems will be:

1. working in gloves will be awkward, especially if they are sticky from condensed flux.
2. condensate on the window will need cleaning. Forget ideas of using a plastic window, it will scratch and risks chemical attack.
3. the box may 'fog' unless you can circulate the air inside, it may be difficult to see where you are working.
4. it could be quite big, consider the size in the picture compared to the person using it.

If fumes are a problem, the simplest solution other than a simple fan and filter is to run a flexible tube along the soldering iron cable to a metal intake tube near the tip. At the other end of the pipe, it a small air pump to **** vapors down the tube to a safe outlet. You can get the flexible tube and air pump from shops selling fish tanks (aquariums). tube may need occasional cleaning or replacement but it is inexpensive. The pump should be servicable but they last many years in normal use anyway.

Brian.

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

It looks to be an expensive and over-complicated solution to me. The main problems will be:

1. working in gloves will be awkward, especially if they are sticky from condensed flux.
2. condensate on the window will need cleaning. Forget ideas of using a plastic window, it will scratch and risks chemical attack.
3. the box may 'fog' unless you can circulate the air inside, it may be difficult to see where you are working.
4. it could be quite big, consider the size in the picture compared to the person using it.

If fumes are a problem, the simplest solution other than a simple fan and filter is to run a flexible tube along the soldering iron cable to a metal intake tube near the tip. At the other end of the pipe, it a small air pump to **** vapors down the tube to a safe outlet. You can get the flexible tube and air pump from shops selling fish tanks (aquariums). tube may need occasional cleaning or replacement but it is inexpensive. The pump should be servicable but they last many years in normal use anyway.

Brian.

Your 4 hints were very useful, especially the need for a glass window. I was initially thought of plexi glass but glass is more durable, chemically inert and can be cleaned easily without scratching.
I was thinking of a big box, a little bit smaller than the one in the picture. It is not expensive to build, 6 pieces of wood (It does not need to be thick and heavy) and a piece of glass for the window. Obviously, a small port with a rubber seal should be also made for loading stuff inside the box and out of it. Because electronics can be a delicate job, I choose to use nitrile surgical gloves, which are thin, more durable, more friendly to the skin and more chemical-resistant than the stinky latex gloves. I will use the long cuff types for better access. after lots of hours of soldering I may replace the disposable gloves, just to be safe. I guess the whole thing won't cost more than 30Euros plus the gloves.

Currently I am using the solution you mention (attached), but this has several problems.
The fumes escape, when I move the iron too fast.
The pump gets very heated when continuously working.
Switching off the pump when no visible fumes come out, does not completely solve the fumes problem.
Noise from the pump.
Need for opening the window, even a bit, (not good in winter) for passing the small tube through.
Not any kind of protection from metals sticking to hands or contaminating the bench/doorknobs, everytime you need to wash hands, which is annoying to me since there are kids in the house.

That is why I am thinking of the glove box with the fan and simple carbon filter placed inside, to circulate and cool air and fumes and gradually clean it.
There will be also RF/DC/audio and other connectors attached to the box, so I can test the incomplete circuits as I build them, with external equipment, without the need to pull them out of the box every time.
This is a completely isolated environment.
Do you think my idea will work?

 

[Mattylad]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Just setup a vacuum cleaner nozzle near your bench sucking all those nasty fumes away

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Just setup a vacuum cleaner nozzle near your bench sucking all those nasty fumes away

This does not deal with the hands contamination and as said, it requires an open window in my case. I am not sure it is safe at all for the kids nearby!

 

[KlausST]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Hi,

if you want to clean the air inside the box, then use active carbon filters.

Klaus

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Hi,

if you want to clean the air inside the box, then use active carbon filters.

Klaus

Yes, that is what I was thinking. A simple fan inside the box, blowing air into a cheap active carbon filter.
It won't clean 100%, but since the air comming out of the filter is cleaner than the air comming into it, and since the air is circulated inside the box, then the air inside the box should be gradually cleaned and no "fogue" effects should be present.
At least this is what I believe.

 

[Audioguru]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Maybe you are using Chinese solder that has rosin made from stinky animal dung?
Maybe your soldering iron is not temperature controlled and gets too hot which causes the rosin to make nasty smoke instead of a pleasant aroma?

I have soldered with my temperature controlled soldering iron for many years and have not used or needed the contraption box you are planning, because there was no smoke. I never used gloves, sometimes but not always I simply washed the lead off my hands when I finished soldering.

Do you also use extreme protection against cooking fumes? Bathroom fumes?

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Maybe you are using Chinese solder that has rosin made from stinky animal dung?
Maybe your soldering iron is not temperature controlled and gets too hot which causes the rosin to make nasty smoke instead of a pleasant aroma?

I have soldered with my temperature controlled soldering iron for many years and have not used or needed the contraption box you are planning, because there was no smoke. I never used gloves, sometimes but not always I simply washed the lead off my hands when I finished soldering.

Do you also use extreme protection against cooking fumes? Bathroom fumes?

The issue of general safety does never come to an end. However, I am just trying to enjoy the hobby here without having in mind all these things, especially because newborn children are around the place. I have soldered for 10-15 years with lead based solder and yes the smoke smells much better. I did not consider lead or fumes back then. The lead-free Kester sac305 I use the last years stinks not pleasantly. Note that sac305 (and many others) do contain lead, cadmium, bismuth, antimony and other metals as well, but they are contained as "impurities" and their percentage is of 0.02-0.002 order.

You can never be entirely safe (after all look all the genetically modified food we eat), but why not do something for the things you can? I agree the glove box is a bit overkill, but since it does not cost enough, why not?

I am amazed, no one I have talked to, really likes the idea. It seems to me to worth every penny.

 

[Mattylad]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Its a crazy idea, born out of some weird idea of health and safety.
Solder fumes are not good to breath in, but your hands? simply wash them with soap and water if your paranoid about it.

For a hobby this will do you nor anyone else in the room any harm, open a window if your worried.
If you were sodlering 24/7 I'd be a bit more concerned - maybe about you falling asleep at the iron

 

[dick_freebird]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

I know OP is not in the USA, but here we have Harbor Freight
and there you can find small sandblasting "booths" which are
basically just what you describe. Fitted for dust extraction,
in some cases even lighted. And all of this stuff is imported
so ought to be as available anywhere else (retail distribution
channel realities aside).

But soldering with gloves on would drive me nuts.

Now, I've been soldering as a hobbyist and a professional
(too impatient for a lab work order) for some decades and
found no ill effects. A little ventilation and you're fine. If
you smell it, more ventilation. If you taste it, a little more
soap next time.

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

I know OP is not in the USA, but here we have Harbor Freight
and there you can find small sandblasting "booths" which are
basically just what you describe. Fitted for dust extraction,
in some cases even lighted. And all of this stuff is imported
so ought to be as available anywhere else (retail distribution
channel realities aside).

Useful info thanks!
However it will cost way too much to post this thing here from US, rather than making a wood-glass construction. I calculated the cost for the desired dimentions, it is not more than 50E or something like that.

I agree, soldering with gloves should be quite weird experience at the beginning. But think about it a bit, is it really?
You see, I use eye protection every time I solder. I have to leave the windows open. I have to avoid breathing close to the iron. Just think how uncomfortable soldering becomes then.

Now think of the glove box. No open windows, not eye protection, no need to avoid any fumes and the circuit can be as close to your eyes as you want, even at the time you solder.
In fact I have soldered using gloves at the past and this is not MUCH of a problem, if you think the rest of the advantages.
The key is to use thin gloves, like the ones used on surgery, and on the right size for your fingers. Don't use medium size where your hands fit to small size. That's all you need really. The feeling is almost like bare hand in that case.

 

[c_mitra]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Solder is basically rosin, a plant product which has been mildly activated. It comes under 'gums" and other 'secretions' from various plant bodies. They are reducing compounds and they act as providing a suitable environment for soldering. The "vapour" quickly condenses and deposits on any cool surface. I am not sure but I do not think that rosin is particularly toxic.

The active solder, Pb (lead) is far more toxic but does not produce vapour at the temp used in soldering. It is alloyed with Sn (tin) but if you rub it on a surface, you will notice that it is soft and leaves a mark on skin. Use soap and water to remove any traces of lead from your hands.

I find it tricky to solder even in open place with two hands and a table lamp and I cannot imagine how someone will be soldering within a glove box. If the soldering iron touches the gloves, it is gone. Yes, surgical gloves are the ideal for this but they cost correspondingly more.

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

If the soldering iron touches the gloves, it is gone. Yes, surgical gloves are the ideal for this but they cost correspondingly more.

This is a problem, I did not have a chance to test yet. A quick touch with the iron on
Latex gloves
Nitrile gloves
If it will be able to burn any of them instantly or not?
I will do this test on latex and on nitrile gloves when they arrive.

However, a quick touch with the iron on the hand cannot burn you, unless there is hot solder remain that prolongs the heating. I would be amazed if these surgical gloves are so sensitive to quick touch.

 

[c_mitra]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

If it will be able to burn any of them instantly or not?
I will do this test on latex and on nitrile gloves when they arrive...

The thinner they are, they more sensitive they are.

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

The thinner they are, they more sensitive they are.

I don't think so. Concerning heat only, it depends on the material, how heatproof is.

 

[betwixt]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

I imagine condensate or flux on the gloves would be a problem, it would make them sticky. My mind's eye can see your frustration when that expensive SMD component you just bought is stuck to the glove inside the box and you can get your hands out without damaging it!

Brian.

 

[SLK001]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

What you really need is something like this: Smoke Extractor. It's nothing more than a muffin fan with a filter in front of it. It should be fairly easy to build one on your own using parts laying around.

As for your reasoning behind your "smoke chamber", it's flawed. First, there isn't any of the metal in the solder in the fumes. Second, the flux used in electronics isn't toxic, but some people are sensitive to exposure. There is a problem with lead getting on your hands during soldering, but industry guidelines say to just wash your hands after soldering. If you wear gloves, you won't get any solder on your hands, but dexterity will greatly suffer. Latex and nitrile gloves will work, but they don't breathe, which will cause your hands to sweat inside the gloves, which can get uncomfortable.

 

[neazoi]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

I imagine condensate or flux on the gloves would be a problem, it would make them sticky. My mind's eye can see your frustration when that expensive SMD component you just bought is stuck to the glove inside the box and you can get your hands out without damaging it!

Brian.

I do not do much smd. Even smds stuck onto the tweezers, due to the flux dirt, is annoying indeed.
If fux onto the gloves is proven to be too much of a problem, then an alcohol sponge inside the glove box, can clean them. If I build this box, I will make the gloves so that they can be removed from time to time, if they are deeply contaminated, but I doubt this would be the case.

- - - Updated - - -

What you really need is something like this: Smoke Extractor. It's nothing more than a muffin fan with a filter in front of it. It should be fairly easy to build one on your own using parts laying around.

I was thinking of make one of these and place this inside the box, so that it cleans the inside air. You know they do not clean not even close to 100%.
My main concern are kids in the house.

 

[c_mitra]

Re: Solder fumes behaviour considering, for making a blove box

Most chemistry labs have one glove box for various purposes. They come in different sizes and shapes and I guess they will not be really expensive.