Continue to Site

Welcome to EDAboard.com

Welcome to our site! EDAboard.com is an international Electronics Discussion Forum focused on EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals... and a whole lot more! To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

Question: how to reduce NF in a Receiver?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Wilson98

Newbie level 4
Newbie level 4
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
5
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
65
Please adivse how to reduce NF after LNA in a BTS (Recevier).
 

Choose a LNA with high gain and low NF.
 

reduce the loss of of the receive filter,and use low noise high gain LNA
 

Wilson98 said:
Please adivse how to reduce NF after LNA in a BTS (Recevier).

After LNA-> 2nd stage amplifier should have low noise figure as well.

But this is not a practical way... choosing a LNA with considerably gain and low insertion loss bandpass filter after antenna is the way... :p
 

i think u can as the members say

and u can put the filter after the lna this will reduce the NF of the filter
but this is hard if it is integrated reciver coz u will need the filter of chip

but if the reciver in pcb u can do it
 

Hi,

if you can't afford input filter and you have SSB receiver, then after LNA use the image rejection mixer (IRM). The use of IRM should decrease the noise figure by 3dB according to theory (image noise is converted to the same IF so the noise power is two times the power comming from the single band).

It will be slightly less in practice depending on image rejection achieved and bandwidth of the rejection.

flyhigh
 

hi,

Use high gain low NF ampifer after LNA stage. Use the BW as narrow as possible.

eecly
 

First of all reduce losses before 1st LNA:
1.) insertion loss of preselection filter
2.) matching losses
3.) line losses

Increase isolation of possible near-by transmitter.

...
 

Choosing a hign gain LNA is a good way and need to take care of the input matching network for LNA
 

Strarting from your question and as it is formulated, It seam that you already have a good LNA but it don't mask enough the NF of the following stages.
So the solution is reducing the NF of the chain beginning from the mixer.
Many tecnically experts peoples replied before me.
I'll give you a solution from an economical point of view.

Usually a common double balanced mixer has a NF >= 7 dB.
Usually the IF amplifier has a NF in the 5 dB range.

For my knowledge, the cost of a mixere is higher than the IF amplifiers.
Try to replace the IF amplifier with a Low Noise IF Amplifier. Watkins Johnson, for example, produce low noise, cheaper, leaded MMIC Amplifiers.
Note that 2 dB reduction on IF ampli's NF and 2 dB reduction on Mixer's NF is the same!!
 

sergio mariotti said:
So the solution is reducing the NF of the chain beginning from the mixer.
....I'll give you a solution from an economical point of view.

....

Ok, but you have to exepect a very little improvement of the receiver noise performance.
 

In my idea,to lower the NF of the system,you must select the low insert loss of the select filter and low NF of the first stage LNA.But low NF of the LNA often doesn't have low reflect cofiction,so many people to use balance type. and this being possible,because the 3DB coupler now have lower loss such as from aneren.
 

In practice, gain of LNA could not be set arbitary high without oscillation ! Also too high a gain will affect your system power handling cap (IP3, P1dB will be lowered).

You have really to strike a balance in your system design. Sometimes, you can switch off LNA gain in order to improve P1dB , using switched LNA design
 

Hi,

I have some experience with LNA design. In is often optimized for gain/noise trade off, input VSWR is of secondary importance. However, typically large VSWR (>3) that goes hand in hand with usual gain/noise chosen can missmatch an input filter or antenna and this is not acceptable in some applications, so one have to redisign the LNA and sacrifice some NF to stay tuned.

High input VSWR can trick an unexperienced designer in measuring G/NF by introducing large uncertanity. The essence of the phenomena is that noise power injected from the noise source is reflected at the input, thus neither entering the system nor appearing at the output and the instrument is fooled making the low NF and high G reading. @gilent has the built-in uncertaniny calculator in their new instruments. You can find more about this on their site.

flyhigh
 

Except everything else that have been mentioned, make sure you don't have a lossy cable connecting your antenna to the first stage (filter or LNA). A look at the Friis Formula will show you what you need to do and why.

Cross
 

Hi ,

Here are some tips. You may not be able to use all of them due to system constraints.
1) Lowest noise figure does not usually happen at the maximum gain. It at slightly reduced gain.
2) Use good dielectric and pay due importance to thickness/bends/width.
3) Use very high Q capacitors.
4) Filter thr power supply.
5) minimize any insertion losses.

BRM

PS: jupitorcuu: why do you feel CDMA requires lesser NF. If you increase the NF then more power is needed resulting in increased interference to other users lowering capacity.
 

Sorry, I means CDMA NF requirement less tough.Compare with other system, CDMA can recover Code information from noise floor.
 

It is kind of difficult to reduce overall NF after LNA.
This simple equation will help you ..

NF=NF1+(NF2-1)/G1+(NF3-1)/G2+.....
 

You can use high gain amplifier after LNA to improve the overall NF of receiver

eecly
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top