Proteus advice for library/schematic symbol drawing

[treez]

Hello,
I am trying to use proteus for schematic drawing and creating (drawing) schematic symbols into a library.
Does anyone know of a tutorial or youtube video which explains how to draw a schematic symbol and then save it in the library? I seem to find that Proteus does not have a schematic symbol editor, but instead you just seem to start a schematic and then draw your intended schematic symbol in there(?)
Also, when I am drawing a schematic symbol, I am not able to change the grid on the screen. Do you know how?
Also, I have access to the schematic symbols that come with Proteus. Sometimes I wish to copy these but make a new schematic symbol out of them. Do you know how to do this?
Another point is that when you pull out a pin for a schematic symbol, it doesn’t seem possible to rotate it as you are dragging it over to the schematic symbol. Do you know how to do this?
All of these things are as simple as “falling out of bed” in the Eagle PCB program. Why is Proteus much less obvious? Proteus seems to me like a PCB/Schematic program made by sopftware engineers…..whereas Eagle is much more intuitive because its made by (German) Electronics Engineers.

Ive done schematic symbol creation in eagle and altium and its easy, and there are loads of tuorials in it in eagle (less so for altium). But proteus, not only is it very hard to understand, but there are not the needed tutorials available for it. Do you agree?

Also, i hear that Proteus only does Gerber files in imperial. Is this a problem for the PCB makers?....ive always done it in metric using Eagle.

 

[Mattylad]

FGS Treeze!
Go back to using Eagle, your constantly complaining about every other tool - I'm beginning to suspect that you are in fact employed by Cadsoft to diss all other software over Eagle
They are different and you need to learn how to use them - use the help, look for tutorials.
Go on a training course even.

Have you asked MrGoogle? He has a very good friend called MrYoutube who has lots of tutorials.
Such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-cv1bCiuKM or even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_FVZwN18Mc

https://www.labcenter.com/tutorials/

Change the grid using F2-F4 or even hit F1 and shock yourself

Proteus does Extended Gerber, GerberX2, ODB++ - what else would you want for board production? (and these outputs are clearly visible on the output menu).

As for metric - yes it does not appear to have that as an option in schematic.
However as the symbols are all drawn in imperial 0.1" pitch between the terminals you would need to completely redo your entire symbol library which is pointless as schematics do not need to be in metric.
They are perfectly OK drawn in imperial units, with imperial grids - just because these are old does not mean that they are no good.

For the PCB side you can use the technology > Grid configuration settings to change to metric.
Although this does not look as user friendly as Eagle, I'm sure that it's just different and learning how to use it or even just exploring and searching in it (and on the web) will yield the information required to be able to use it.
I don't use it, I don't know it but found the answers above in a few minutes by doing so.

 

[treez]

Have you asked MrGoogle? He has a very good friend called MrYoutube who has lots of tutorials.
Such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-cv1bCiuKM or even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_FVZwN18Mc

thanks i had already watched those two videos......they are nowhere near enough for general use of the schem symbol creation in proteus.
You say the F keys to change the grid, but changing the grid needs to be done in the environment, so you can pick the grid size.

I cant understand why they dont have a menu item called "grid", and when you click it, a dialog box opens and yo can change it to what you need.

Anyway, nobody can practice this at home, as as you say, its a "demonstration" version......you cant even save a schema symbol to a library...you cant save anything.
I suspect that proteus is one of those "private clique" type pcb programs....unlike Eagle, where i bought it, then on the same day layed out a 4 layer board with no problem whatsoever...but i have no connection to cadsoft. I doubt cadsoft bother paying people in such a way....they just get on with it....like most Germans do...and do vey well.

 

[pjmelect]

Strange I tried Eagle and I could not get to grips with it (I did not try very hard) I found it much easier to learn and use Proteus as it seems to work how my brain works whereas Eagle does not. Each to his own I guess.

 

[Mattylad]

I figured stuff out just messing with proteus for a few minutes.

Now Altium - thats got me stumped for now

 

[treez]

There are millions of good tutorials for eagle, and some for altium........perhaps just enough to get you going in altium.....but Proteus....well.....effective revealing tutorials dont seem to exist....how hard do we want pcb ayotu programs to be?.......a basic PCB doent have a very complex structure...a pcb program shoudl be as simple as a pcb......if we are struggling, then there is some problem.
I honestly dont see how anyone can struggle with eagle, there are huge numbers of youtube vids and other web resource on it....feast on it.

Then again, if you work or are a representative of a big corporation (who owns a different pcb layout program) who wants to cut into eagle or altium sales for your own personal benefit, then on we go, lets start slating eagle....but really.

 

[marce]

This is the very same negative views on the PCB design industry you have posted before...
Before you start accusing people of slating software please go and read some of your previous comments on PCB design software, they have been far from complimentary. This thread is going to turn into a this SW is better than that SW thread, please close it now and save us the pain....

 

[treez]

Thanks, and as you know, many companies actually actively seek an overly difficult pcb program, because they feel it stops other potential competitors from being able to get into their schems and layouts. As you apprciate I dont have a problem with that.

 

[marce]

No they don't its PCB design that has become more complex requiring more complex software to achieve the desired results...

 

[treez]

And if someone wishes to lay out a very simple 1 sided test PCB, say containing just a potential divider and a comparator and two connectors, then the high-end pcb programs should facilitate for that to be layed out with ease by anyone who understands the structure of a PCB, do you agree?
That is, it should be pretty much as easy to do such a simple task in say Cadence Allegro as it is in Eagle.

 

[marce]

It is......

 

[treez]

i dont believe this, this is why companies , after 10 years of using high end pcb layout programs, still have to call out the apps support people of the high end packages at great expense.
To do the job i described , you would never need apps support with eagle. The job i described is a doddle in eagle, but can be far more complex in a high end package.
I appreciate that anyone who has got into a high end package and is making a living out of it, then they would defend high end packages to the hilt, no matter what...after all, its the bread and butter.

 

[marce]

I really don't know where your coming from with all this... I have 35 years experience in PCB design on numerous top end systems and have never encounter the problems you seem to describe:
Either you are totally in the wrong career or you have some other agenda, but any competent person can do a simple PCB on any of the major packages, if they couldn't after a bit of training then if they worked for me they would get the sack.
Your are blatantly advertising for eagle it seems on open forums which may not be allowed.

As to your last paragraph wot a load of c***, why would I defend a software package to the hilt, it is the most stupid statement I have seen . If you bother to read ALL my replies I answer in an honest and clear fashion and never support one particular CAD system, and will discuss the good and bad points of any system, but I do NOT promote a particular system whilst slagging off all the others...

 

[treez]

Can you tell me why recently, a £50 per hour altium layout consultant, who did all our pcb’s , couldn’t find out how to make a track go at an angle other than either 90 degs or 45 degs? I had him on skype and after 20 mins of trying unsuccessfully to do it he gave up and told me he’d look into it sone other time. His last step was to ask google but that didn’t help him

- - - Updated - - -

Can you tell me why an audio amplifier company have to call out the xxxxxxxx (high end package) apps guy (at great expence) once per year even though all their pcb’s are simple.
-And why do apps guys exist in such high numbers for high end pcb programs...they shouldnt be necessary , there should be good tutorials and learning videos

 

[marce]

Sorry again I haven't seen what you are seeing in the industry...
Maybe these people should get the right people to do the job, to be perfectly honest I would not pay a muppet £50 an hour if he did not understand the software...
As to the first problem 20 seconds on google got me the answers to any angle routing in Altium.
Its either people cant be bothered to learn the job or the job is above their mental abilities, sorry but I have used all the major packages and with a bit of effort they can all be learnt.
Your constant ranting against what you term high end packages is getting very monotonous and does not reflect the reality of the situation, where the majority of designers get on and do the job instead of bickering on about how hard life is, stop whining and learn the job.

 

[Mattylad]

I wish I was on £50 an hour, for that I'd learn how to do freehand routing in Altium !! (and that's an open offer to anyone who wants to pay me that )
It seems that you probably just got a "consultant" who did not know as much as he sold himself for.
BTW - here is a simple link that tells you how -http://techdocs.altium.com/display/ADRR/PCB_Obj-Track((Track))_AD

As for the calling the apps guy, perhaps the videos and tutorials don't actually have all the information in - its impossible to make videos for every event.
Documentation is made but no one can actually be bothered to read it! It's much easier and quicker to just call up someone who knows.
Re the great expense, I suspect that the mass of that expense is for continued improvement of the software for features that users ask for and only a little bit of it actually pays for support calls.
Given the time being able to pick up a phone and ask an expert can save, it's often actually more cost effective to keep a support guy on contract, only calling him once a year would be your failure.
Although I don't think you can actually do that with Eagle?

So what's your next whinge going to be about? would you like us to start complaining about Eagle? it's drawbacks, and problems?

 

[treez]

Theres no whinge, but just sheer joy at how simple Eagle PCB program is.....i had used four or five, including some high end packages, and struggled, i then bought eagle pro, and layed out a 4 layer smps/control board in 2 days, ..thats library parts, gerbers the lot...and it was as simple as falling out of bed.......people say its just because i have a "personal affinity" for eagle......but i dont buy that..........eagle is just a simple one instead of the others which are needlessly difficult...."private softwares".....before seeing the light in getting eagle, i actually spent >£2k on a particular high-end package.......i wanted to "marry" it...but there were too many problems......so i gave eagle a try and have never looked back.
I am not on the payroll of eagle...its a German package and i am a Brit...they wouldnt pay a Brit.

Eagle is as simple as a PCB...as they all should be.......it cant be just me.......

Anybody earning good bucks doing the other PCB packages though is bound to promote it. Specially because its difficult to get into so you are gauranteed less competition coming into your "earnings sphere"...its all about the dosh. I just pity the poor engineering managers who dont know better and get hoodwinked by their layout guys that their high-end package is best, and anyone who cant use it is just a "waster". Insider knowledge is needed for the high-end packages....either that , or the intellect of a computer hacker to learn the package....or just loads of pricey apps guy visits.

The non eagle packages could be made much easier but they are not......even better tutorials would help.....but no apps guy is going to publish good tutorials and put themselves out of work......and it would only result in more competition from more layout workers entering the "earnings sphere"...because many apps guys become layouters , or already moonlight as a layout engineer.

 

[marce]

Total unadulterated BS...
Total rubbish, especially the last 2 paragraphs.
Please shut this Eagle love thread down moderators, its just a pointless waste of time.

 

[treez]

i am baffled, truly, if the others are as simple as eagle then why can i do eagle so ridiculously easily..but the others are hard?....maybe there are certain things that my personal brain just strangely finds simple......i don't know, maybe nuclear physics might be simple to me or something like that......or maybe eagle really is simpler than the others.....and the others just arent so well depicted/explained.

 

[BradtheRad]

Moderators are aware that discussions about software often turn into 'This is better... No that is better'. Moderators are not necessarily able to evaluate the truth about anyone's particular view.
The discussion does not benefit from experts making extreme 'you speak rubbish' statements. The forum benefits when experts contribute their expert views on software features, ease-of-use, etc.