Looking for PCB Tool for multilayer RF PCB Design

Hello Friends
I have worked in RF and microwave area and I only worked two layer pcb design such as X band LNA design or ISM band transceiver design and for now I want to design multilayer RF transceiver. I have used AWR Microwave Office in University and I dont know AWR is capable of design multilayer RF pcb or should I use another PCB tool. ANway help me to find right tool Thanks in advance

Altium, Zuken, etc.

eagle is best for all type of pcb's

saw86 said:

I dont know AWR is capable of design multilayer RF pcb

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Yes, sure.

many of us in the USA use Altium.

Thanks friends for your answers. I heard altium many times and also one of my friend recommend Mentor Hyperlynx .For AWR I have simulated S parameter sim., Noise Figure sim, group delay sim., PAE sim., does altium give those simulation options or is there any other method for altium to design trace width,trace length, matching circuit
And Mr. Muehlhaus I found some example for the multilayer PCB but to define PCB stack up and to define blind and buried via are seem complicated
Thank you all again

PCB tool != RF simulation software

However, for Hyperlynx there is an EM solver option.

Mr. Muehlhaus thanks for fast reply... ok I understand "PCB tool != RF simulation software" thing. Forgive me the questions I asked with my limited PCB experience. What is your recommended tool to design RF multilayer PCB up to 6 GHz
Thanks in advance

saw86 said:

Mr. Muehlhaus thanks for fast reply... ok I understand "PCB tool != RF simulation software" thing. Forgive me the questions I asked with my limited PCB experience. What is your recommended tool to design RF multilayer PCB up to 6 GHz
Thanks in advance

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Altium is good PCB design software but it's not dedicated to pure RFMW pcb circuits.For instance you cannot draw a spiral inductor,sheet filter or some other MW related complex shapes easily.
I recommend Cadence Allegro with RF option for relatively high frequecny circuits.It has also smooth interface with ADS and Microwave Ofiice.
But it's expensive sure..

BigBoss said:

I recommend Cadence Allegro with RF option for relatively high frequecny circuits.It has also smooth interface with ADS and Microwave Ofiice.

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It really depends how complex the PCB is. For a simple multilayer PCB we can use ADS or Microwave Office stand-alone, without adding Allegro.

Mr. Muehlhaus Thank you very much for your precious help

Well, according to my limited knowledge, ADS, Genesys, and AWR could cope with the job. Like ADS, you are able to design a multilayer PCB with the layout tool, as well as simulation can be done with the Momentum solver. However, I don't think it is much more convenient to "draw those shapes" in ADS than do it in any other PCB designing tools which have no ability to solve any EM problem. So I don't think those PCB tools, like Altium, are suitable choices even though they have a better "drawing" interface.

Maybe you can have an eye on another software named Sonnet. I heard that it is a tool facing planar EM problem which is exactly correspond to yours. And it might have a better input interface, but I'm not sure for the reason that I've never used it. And I also don't know it's price. Oh, there really exists a free version, Sonnet-lite. But I can image that your mission has already been way beyond its limits.

volker@muehlhaus said:

It really depends how complex the PCB is. For a simple multilayer PCB we can use ADS or Microwave Office stand-alone, without adding Allegro.

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If you consider a PCB just as a passive circuit, yes ADS,MW Office or even Autocad can be used but the general case is not so simple.
Creating a simple LNA with a unusual package can be tedious.Manufacturers do frequently not supply package information for them.In additional to that, if there are some more complex structures on the PCB such as Modulators,PLLs with highly complex packages, using them will be very headached.

Agreed, BigBoss.

The comparison with AutoCAD seems unfair, because ADS etc. have more capable routing (including smart multi-layer routing) and LVS and DRC and metal pour and other PCB-specific features. Defining a package isn't that bad either. But I agree I would NOT want to use them for complex layouts with RF and much digital/processor stuff. Some simple RF + PLL layout should work fine, however.