[SOLVED] Learn embedded system design

[dapu]

can anyone of you there please guide me the correct path i should follow to learn embedded system designing.i know organization and how actually the processor/controller interacts with various modules ,also have basic idea of digital part of design and programming in c.
but where i am really confused is that the analog part of design,like the circuit is always not so clean ,like just buses and perfect powersupply for each component.
i am keen to design my very own SBC(single board computer) using a ARM processor but no idea how to do so.as of now i will manage to learn the instruction set protocols,how to connect and all that stuff and also programming part.but in between where those caps resistors coils etc are used and why...i have no idea as no electronics background.

please someone tell me the essential topics that i should read in order to design a perfect circuit and get my hands on the soldering machine please i request u all experienced people to guide me the correct way and also can someone please tell me are these circuit simulation softwares relaible in case of designing something complex as an embedded system or a PC board..
sorry for asking so many questions in same post but i will make another one if anyone has objections

 

[ec_nisarg]

you are not from electronics back ground so you have to learn from the base,
these things are not easy...
one question i may ask you that "are you a science student?"

also arm is a much complex machine, it is quite difficult then you thinks,

you should have start from basic electronics...

and don't mix digital and analog things together, as they are quite different things,
if you are talking about microcontrollers they are digitals (though some micros can handle analog signals too)
and if you are talking about designing an amplifier it is analogues design.

 

[nikhilsigma]

ec_nisarg is gud in saying that start with basics and with simple microcontoller....

and if u ask about embedded systems and microcontroller.....in my opinion MAZADI is the best book....it comes both for ATMEL and PIC microcontrollers...

 

[dapu]

ec_nisarg is gud in saying that start with basics and with simple microcontoller....

and if u ask about embedded systems and microcontroller.....in my opinion MAZADI is the best book....it comes both for ATMEL and PIC microcontrollers...

you are not from electronics back ground so you have to learn from the base,
these things are not easy...
one question i may ask you that "are you a science student?"

also arm is a much complex machine, it is quite difficult then you thinks,

you should have start from basic electronics...

and don't mix digital and analog things together, as they are quite different things,
if you are talking about microcontrollers they are digitals (though some micros can handle analog signals too)
and if you are talking about designing an amplifier it is analogues design.

you are not from electronics back ground so you have to learn from the base,
these things are not easy...
one question i may ask you that "are you a science student?"

also arm is a much complex machine, it is quite difficult then you thinks,

you should have start from basic electronics...

and don't mix digital and analog things together, as they are quite different things,
if you are talking about microcontrollers they are digitals (though some micros can handle analog signals too)
and if you are talking about designing an amplifier it is analogues design.

yes i am from a science background and i do know little basics like what is cap ,resistor,coil
a transistor etc but something i am finding missing in my box like in many circuits i frequently see caps are connected to ground and many such similar pattern of connection at IC pins in variuos schematics i usually wonder what they are and why they are there ,and then i feel something is missing that i need to know as i have no practical experience

also isn't it like analog and digital go hand in hand to design a circuit like that of a pc board..

assuming that i know following topics what further would you recommend me to study

>resistor - connecting parallel and series
>KVL KCL
>capacitors - how they work-blocks dc
>voltage divider
>thevinin theorem
>norton theorem
>how the memory processors and other IO are connected to each other, basically stuff related to Computer organization at university level course
>assembly language
>c language
>digital logic,solving boolean expressions,etc in logic design course in university course
>transistor baising PNP NPN common emitter-base

form here where shall i proceed what more shall i learn like is there need to learn filters,voltage regulator IC's ....what more ??
and i think microcontroller is good to start but i want to learn how to actually connect other modules to it ..?? where are these passive components used in circuit and why...

like for example i programmed a controller to communicate with a gsm module and burnt the code also in controller..
having a gsm module and controller...now how to connect these two,i think it won't be a clean set of wires from uC pins to module some pull up or pull down resistor ,cap or something is always there i see in circuits . that confuses me why it is there

 

[ec_nisarg]

>capacitors - how they work-blocks dc

and you wonder why they are grounded on one side??

you have to study that topic once more...

well let me tell you... if caps block dc so they pass ac...
micros are operating on digital signals,,, digital signals are dc so ac should be removed..
here ac means any kind of analog noise...

find some basic electronics book...
where are you from? if you are from india.. you can purchase "j.b.gupta" for basic things...

book:

 electronic devices and circuits

author:

 j.b.gupta

 

[smitthhyy]

assuming that i know following topics what further would you recommend me to study

You are learning parrot fashion. In other words you are learning that a capacitor blocks DC because that is written in a text book. You have not learned how to apply that information. It is something to you that is black and white, where that is not the case at all. It has many meanings and applications. I'd suggest the first step is to find out how to learn (and that is not here, so please don't ask).

Once you have mastered that art, then you should start from the start again completely ignoring your list as you have not mastered any of those (unfortunately).

 

[dapu]

and you wonder why they are grounded on one side??

you have to study that topic once more...

well let me tell you... if caps block dc so they pass ac...
micros are operating on digital signals,,, digital signals are dc so ac should be removed..
here ac means any kind of analog noise...

find some basic electronics book...
where are you from? if you are from india.. you can purchase "j.b.gupta" for basic things...

book:

 electronic devices and circuits

author:

 j.b.gupta

lolx ofcourse they are having one ground pin/low voltage pin ,i am sorry if i was not able to explain my question properly and thank you already gave the answer that caps is used for AC noise filtering in a DC circuit,how could i have known that there is AC noise too in a digital circuit....now this is what which is not there while we are learning digital logic or microprocessor or computer organization courses in universities..

and ya i am from india and i will surely look into j.b gupta ,are there any specific topics i should go for ? and afterwards where shall i proceed to continue my learning...

i think what i am looking for is some practical applications of these components,that would help me to understand the usage of these in real world applications ,theory is just not enough to get me working on a new design ..isn't it so ??

 

[ec_nisarg]

noise can be of various type.. thermal noise.. static noise.. emc,, esd... .. you have to bypass such noise or any ac signals that may come from previous stage of circuit, so u need a bypass capacitor from the line to ground.

i will search for another reading for you tomorrow.. till now bye ...

 

[dapu]

noise can be of various type.. thermal noise.. static noise.. emc,, esd... .. you have to bypass such noise or any ac signals that may come from previous stage of circuit, so u need a bypass capacitor from the line to ground.

i will search for another reading for you tomorrow.. till now bye ...

thanks a ton i am really greatful for being there to help....really thanx a lot ...gudnyt

 

[tarun0xe]

hello dapu... I had started a similar post yesterday, although it was more about particular books on ARM and TI c55x DSP. after reading all these posts, I would say you should go through circuit design skills in more depth. then learn analog electronics in detail again. after that, I am sure you'll be able to understand what those capacitors say or what they don't and so on. but you'll really have to work hard and in detail and completely follow an approach of 'Why and What' in almost everything you learn about electronics from now. you are not the only engineering student from indian universities having such queries, as in general,they don't tell these things in detail at universities here. don't worry, you'll have to work hard but will succeed if you do. and off course you'll need good text books to get these things. for circuit analysis, I suggest you ENGINEERING CIRCUIT ANALYSIS by Hayt and kimmerly, mc graw hill publications. then for analog electronics, go with MICROELECTRONIC CIRCUITS by sedra n smith, oxford university press. also follow them one after other, i.e first master circuit skills, then analog and then you'll be able to find your path on your own. while learning, circuit analysis, you could have problem with mathematics like in differential equations so look back into maths books for that stuff otherwise keep going on. and last but not the least, to change the approach of learning, go through each unsolved exercise problems of all of chapters of these books. the path is long and time taking, but if you follow this, you'll never have to look back. good luck.

 

[ec_nisarg]

to: dapu... are you an engineering student? if yes which branch??

 

[dapu]

hello dapu... I had started a similar post yesterday, although it was more about particular books on ARM and TI c55x DSP. after reading all these posts, ....................................................................... mathematics like in differential equations so look back into maths books for that stuff otherwise keep going on. and last but not the least, to change the approach of learning, go through each unsolved exercise problems of all of chapters of these books. the path is long and time taking, but if you follow this, you'll never have to look back. good luck.

thanks ...but what i am looking is for the topics which i shall read ...because i don't what to go though whole anlog stuf...only the essential ones..

anyways thanks for understanding me better

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to: dapu... are you an engineering student? if yes which branch??

ya an engg student ....cs branch(4th sem vtu)

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You are learning parrot fashion. In other words you are learning that a capacitor blocks DC because that is written in a text book. You have not learned how to apply that information. It is something to you that is black and white, where that is not the case at all. It has many meanings and applications. I'd suggest the first step is to find out how to learn (and that is not here, so please don't ask).

Once you have mastered that art, then you should start from the start again completely ignoring your list as you have not mastered any of those (unfortunately).

first of all i am sorry i missed your reply....secondly if it was only about capacitors then i would surely had implemented the same...
what i am looking for is not the way to learn ..i am looking for what to learn to be like one of you.

what unierity courses shall i take up or what topics shall i read in order to start designing my own embedded system or system boards..
i don't want to go through the complete undergrad course in electrical and electronics...

 

[dapu]

................

 

[dapu]

where is everyone

 

[ec_nisarg]

sorry.. i was bit busy...

if you want to learn in crash manner.. you have to put your self on to experiments...
you should design some easy hardware and then try to figure out what is happening inside it.. (consumes less time but much money)

actually you want to learn everything and you want to learn it in no time.. not possible man... keep patience, you are engineering student and you'll learn the things in your path,, try to study on your self... we can not discuss all the topics here on this forum,

sorry to be such rude. but its true man..

 

[dapu]

sorry.. i was bit busy...

if you want to learn in crash manner.. you have to put your self on to experiments...
you should design some easy hardware and then try to figure out what is happening inside it.. (consumes less time but much money)

actually you want to learn everything and you want to learn it in no time.. not possible man... keep patience, you are engineering student and you'll learn the things in your path,, try to study on your self... we can not discuss all the topics here on this forum,

sorry to be such rude. but its true man..

but i just want a simple answer ...what i have to read...its okie i will read slowly and do everything later but what to read i am confused about topics..maybe this question was bit confusing..have a look here i posted again but in different wy https://www.edaboard.com/threads/286606/

 

[123jack]

dapu now I see this thread I can see better what you are asking for.

First I suggest you tell us what city you are in - or at least do you have access to professional electronics training of any sort? free or paid.
You can "sort of" teach yourself but a few hours in a night school or electronics club with other people is your very best option to get started.
However - you dont just do a course on "embedded electronics".
First you learn electronics. The hard part with math and formulas and all sorts.
Then you learn to program. The part that makes it look easier than it is so people think they can just "do it"
(Then you end up with "golf ball detectors that dont detect golf balls but do kill people")
Then you learn to apply the programming to the electronics.
For embedded software work you will need to learn a bit more math than for higher level fields.
(various math bases, boolean logic etc)
Anyone can bodge a few circuits together but they will be mostly the electronic equivalent of trinkets -
satisfying for a few moments to their creator but no use for anything else.
Having a hobby is a good thing but having a hobby that electrocutes you because you've never
heard of isolation transformers can defeat the object. ;-)

The fact that you are asking here so determined suggests to me that you want something more professional
but aren't sure where to start.

So: I'd suggest first concentrate on getting the basics of electronics - and ask questions just about that when you get stuck.
Make your questions very specific to whatever problem you get (we all have them - electronics are complex - no need to be embarrased)
and provide as much information as you can about the specific problem. That way people can actualy help you progress.

Concentrate on theory alone at first - only then find a fairly simple project to start applying it to.
You will take years to build up knowledge and skill - don't be impatient.

Remember yahoo is your friend (the other place isnt). You may find someone local to talk to. That is always a good thing.

 

[dapu]

you understood me very well 123jack ...i don't have accessto anyonewho could guide me and no quality course as far as i know..all are related to pragramming very less of hardware stuff..i even don't know what you refer to as basicelectronics

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also i really mean it that i can do all those architecture and programming stuff on my own with little or no hassle...

i just want the topics from the vast domain of electronics(only analog) ,only the essential ones ,,like noise filters,how to look for em interference how it affects circuit,why those pull up pull down res. etc etc

 

[123jack]

dapu
you really dont appreciate the complexity of what you are asking all in one go.
You seem to be looking for one forum reponse to teach you everything in one go.
Forums can't do that. The place for that is a 2-4 year training course. Yahoo lists them I expect.
If there isnt one local maybe there is a video course online somewhere to get you started.
Forums really only work for very specific questions and general banter.

Here is a question for you:
Assume you are designing a real small circuit with a transistor a capacitor (x2) a resistor (x2)
Ignoring the actual function - List all (ALL) the factors to consider when selecting just one of the resistors for the circuit.
Do it off the top of your head without looking anything up.

 

[dapu]

you are getting me wrong i just want to sort out the chapters/courses i should opt for ..like i might need circuit theory and not transformer...i might need some more things...i will post chapters from art of electronics you please tell me which one i should go for...thats enough for me thnx again for replying and doing all possible to help me