How to converge with large number of nodes ?

[xerxer]

how to converage ?

when i simulate the circuits which node number is larege ,i often find the simulation doesn't converage .Can Anybody tell me how to settle it ?3ks!!!!

[/b]

 

[mdcui]

Re: how to converage ?

Wish this could be helpful!!!



From an Avanti AE to workaround convergence problems:



Hspice dc non-convergence

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Convergence is defined as the ability to obtain a solution to a set of

circuit equations within a given tolerance criteria (1). This short

collection of suggestions is designed to trade runtime performance and

loosen

certain tolerance bounds in the hopes of overcoming dc non-convergence. For

a

more comprehensive discussion on non-convergence, please see the hspice

manual.



1. Increase ilt1, which is the # of iterations hspice will attempt in

dc analysis before rejecting the solution, from its default of 200.



.option itl1 = 500



2. For circuits with feedback or multiple bias states (FF and latches),

it is important to provide hspice with an initial guess that is close

to the final solution. Use .nodeset to set initial voltage guesses. In



particular, focus on those nodes that are listed as non convergent in

the

output .lis file.



.nodeset v(in)=0 v(out)=3.3



3. Hspice will try various convergence algorithims as it struggles to

achieve DC convergence. Read the .lis file to see where hspice was when

the job aborted. Hspice first tries DCON = 1,2, then converge=1. If

this isn't enough, try the other two converge choices, along with

smaller gmindc values. Converge=3 is the source stepping method listed

in

"Inside Spice".



.option converge=2 gmindc=1e-12

1e-11

1e-10

1e-9

.option converge=3 gmindc=1e-12

1e-11

1e-10

1e-9



4. If certain active element nodes seem to be nonconvergent, you may

have hspice perform 2 dc bias point calculations. The first calculation

is performed with the active elements turned off. Then, this solution

is

used as the first guess for the dc solution with the elements turned on.

You may choose one or more elements to turn off, declared on element

line.



Diode n1 n2 diode_model off

Qbjt n1 n2 n3 bjt_model off

Mosfet n1 n2 n3 n4 mos_model off



5. While performing DC sweep, hspice now invokes the pseudo-tran

analysis

for difficult sweep points as well as DC bias calculation. To furthur

help DC sweep analysis, you may increase itl2, the number of iterations

hspice will take at each dc sweep point.



.option itl2 = 200



6. If increasing itl2 doesn't help dc sweep analysis, the problem most

likely lies in model discontinuities. (2) As a workaround, you may try

to

increase and offset the sweep size in an attempt to miss model problems.



Original: .dc vin 0v 3.3v .1v

Increase: .dc vin 0v 3.3v .2v

Offset: .dc vin .01v 3.31v .1v



Hope this helps! For more information on non convergence, please see

Hspice users manual, specifically the chap. on DC initialization and

Operating

Point analysis, sections Autoconverge Process and Reducing DC errors, and

also

Ron Kielkowski's "Inside Spice" for furthur discussion on this topic.



References:

(1) - Hspice user's man., Vol. 1, 1996 Meta-Software, for Hspice v96.1



(2) - "Inside Spice", Ron Kielkowski, McGraw-Hill, Inc., 1998, p. 71.





Hspice transient non-convergence, 'internal timestep too small' errors

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Convergence is defined as the ability to obtain a solution to a set of

circuit equations within a given tolerance criteria (1). This short

collection of suggestions is designed to trade runtime performance and

loosen

certain tolerance bounds in the hopes of overcoming 'internal timestep

too small' errors.



1. Increase itl4, which is the # of iterations hspice will try at one

time point, before giving up and taking a smaller time step. Default =

8.

This will likely affect runtime performance.



.option itl4 = 50

itl4 = 100



2. Loosen tolerance limits from their defaults:



.option reltol=1e-3 abstol=1e-8

reltol=5e-2 abstol=1e-7

reltol=1e-2 abstol=1e-6



3. Help the circuit by adding admittance and capacitance elements

between each node and ground:



.option gshunt=1e-12 cshunt=1e-12

gshunt=1e-11 cshunt=5e-11

gshunt=1e-10 cshunt=1e-11

gshunt=1e-9 cshunt=1e-10



(Note: this is the largest value I would recommend; increasing

g,c shunt larger will reduce simulation accuracy.)



4. Increase tstep value, to step over possible model discontinuities:



.tran tstep tstop ->

.tran (2)*tstep tstop

.tran (2.5)*tstep tstop

.tran (3)*tstep tstop



5. A toggle type option that may help certain high gain, analog

(op-amp) and/or oscillitory circuits (such as an inverter ring) during

tran analysis is changing integration methods. Note the time of the

tran error with default 'trap' method, then try 'gear'. If your

simulation gets furthur into the tran run, then stick with 'gear'.

Otherwise, disable the gear option.



.option method=gear



6. If you're still having trouble with timestep too small after trying

the above steps, you should investigate the device models used. For

CMOS,

make sure you have finite terminal capacitances and resistances.

For level 49, be sure you have the model parameters below: (these are

samples, not defaults)



.model mname nmos level=49 version=3.2

+ cj=5e-4 cjsw=1e-10 cgd0=1e-10 cgs0=1e-10 rs=1e-9 rd=1e-9



In the case of BJT device, be sure to have the following model param-

eters set: (examples, not default)



.model mname npn rb=50 rc=.4 re=1e-3



7. The last scenario I have encountered is the timestep too small error

occuring at time = 0; there are typically two reasons for this. Either



dc analysis wasn't performed, or unrealistic .ic voltages have been set,

and hspice can't converge with the given node voltages. Look for the

error differences between old and new iteration value, and try setting

the

node voltage with .nodeset statement somewhere closer to new guess. In

general, .nodeset is more appropriate than .ic.

 

[xerxer]

Re: how to converage ?

3ks .i try.
Have Book on the question of spice simulation noconverage questions publised?

 

[mdcui]

Re: how to converage ?

there is one with the name like "inside hspice", but I do not have a E version.

 

[eecs4ever]

how to converage ?

You can try looking through this...

h**p://www.intusoft.com/articles/converg.pdf

good luck!

 

[jonneylu]

Re: how to converage ?

you can try to set the simulation precision,and use nodeset function.