urian
Full Member level 3
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2009
- Messages
- 154
- Helped
- 10
- Reputation
- 20
- Reaction score
- 3
- Trophy points
- 1,298
- Activity points
- 2,500
Std. dev. is probably standard deviation. It's a term used in statistical analysis.
The mean is the value halfway between the highest and lowest data. It is not necessarily the same as the average of all the data.
Hi, according to what you said, when we consider the mismatch of capacitors, we only use the Std parameter rather than Mean?
For example, if I want to estimate the capacitor area used to guarantee the gain error caused by capacitor mismatch is within acceptable range(say 0.1% mismatch will cause 1% gain error, and the gain error should be less than 0.2%), how can I do it? I know the Normal distribution, but I dont know how to relate it to the capacitor mismatch.
If you need a lower mismatch, you'd have to enlarge the unit area: mismatch reduces inversely with the square root of the area. For example: a cross-coupled quartet of 4 unit caps (1 unit cap = 2*50µm2) decreases the mismatch of the contents of a 1σ std.dev. from 230ppm to 163ppm.
That's right!My design is an industry project, so the yield is very important, I need the least mismatch, at least 3σ.
Until here, all is correct.As you said, if I use 50um X 50um capacitor pair, only 50% of all capacitor pairs will have mismatch below 0.017%? Then if I want to get 99.7% yield I need to use 3σ rather than the Mean value to decide the cap. area? That is to say, 99.7% of all capacitor pairs will have mismatch below 0.069%? And if I use 200um X 200um capacitor pair, the σ now is 0.00575%?
No, I don't think so: You have to compare the mismatch of the unit cap "1" to both of the 2 other unit caps, which in both cases still is 0.023%. So for worst case (both of the "2" caps tend to mismatch into the same direction), the overall mismatch of the 1:2 (or 1:4 or 1:8) configuration still is 0.023%. Statistically it will be a bit less (because parameter mismatch tends to increase or decrease in one direction), for an industrial project, however, you always need to consider the worst case, unfortunately :-( .For capacitor 1:2 with unit cap. area 50um X 50um, the σ now is 0.0162%?
In my calculation I thought of a unit cap = 2*50µm2 = 100µm2. That's why the calculated σ value is lower by a factor of √2 .Furthermore, I am little confused with this example. Do you mean the unit cap = 2*50µm2 = 50 X 50 um2 ? or = 100um2 ?
You need to compare the mismatch of the single cap against each of the others, so the result stays at 230ppm, see my worst case consideration above. If you don't need to consider the worst case, you could statistically calculate with a σ value of 230ppm/√2 , but not half of the original value, because you probably won't position the 4 unit caps in the same direction away from the "1" unit cap, but symmetrically.If it is 50 X 50um2, that is to say, one capacitor is 50X 50um2, and the other consists of 4 50 X 50um2 , then the result I got is 230/2 = 115 ppm. What's wrong?
No, I don't think so: You have to compare the mismatch of the unit cap "1" to both of the 2 other unit caps, which in both cases still is 0.023%. So for worst case (both of the "2" caps tend to mismatch into the same direction), the overall mismatch of the 1:2 (or 1:4 or 1:8) configuration still is 0.023%. Statistically it will be a bit less (because parameter mismatch tends to increase or decrease in one direction), for an industrial project, however, you always need to consider the worst case, unfortunately
In my calculation I thought of a unit cap = 2*50µm2 = 100µm2. That's why the calculated σ value is lower by a factor of √2 .
You need to compare the mismatch of the single cap against each of the others, so the result stays at 230ppm, see my worst case consideration above. If you don't need to consider the worst case, you could statistically calculate with a σ value of 230ppm/√2 , but not half of the original value, because you probably won't position the 4 unit caps in the same direction away from the "1" unit cap, but symmetrically.
So, if the unit cap is 50um X 50um, then the mismatch between capacitor pair is always 0.023% no matter what the capacitor ratio is, 1:2 or 1:3, or 1:5 or whatever?
If the unit cap = 2*50µm\[{ 2}^{ }\] = 100µm\[{ 2}^{ }\]. And the unit cap the foundry given is 50X50=2500um\[{ 2}^{ }\], why there is only \[\sqrt{ 2}\] reduction?
I wonder whether in the case of 1:4 ratio, there is sum square root relationship between each cap.
If you'd know their respective (symmetry- and direction-caused) deviation, you could exactly calculate the overall deviation. For a 1:4 star configuration (the "1" cap in the center) for instance, for a 2-D linear variation change in arbitrary direction such symmetrical configuration would totally cancel the deviation - that's why symmetrical configurations are important. There's no simple way to account for the real residual deviation - if you can't get measured data for symmetrical configurations from the fab/foundry, I think. If so, they usually won't guarantee them ...
You could try (and error) this sum square root relationship by measuring the chips of a trial run - at least this seems better than relying on total deviation cancellation by symmetry or taking the real estate cost of a huge area overhead for the absolutely pessimistic worst case consideration of no deviation reduction at all.
My opinion - don't know if this is helpful. My (good) experience was: take that unit area which corresponds to (or is better than) the needed accuracy -- and see that you don't ruin that accuracy by routing parasitics!
Less, yes - for symmetrical (common centroid) configurations.I think in your option, the statistically mismatch value is better than the worst case, right?
My fellow taught me the method he used for cap. mismach calculation, that is, if the unit is C (area ) and its Std.dev. is σ, then there are two capacitors composed of the unit cap. C with raito a:b, we can get the mismatch sqrt((1/a)+(1/b)) * σ. I wonder whether it is the statistically method you menioned above?
But: see above :!:And the result calculated by this method is less than yours.
No. The worst case is if all "b" caps have the worst case mismatch in the same direction, then the original σ value will not be improved - a rather unlikely case. Worst cases always are unlikely - but they can occur, and they should be accounted for, if economically reasonable. You also account for other combined (and so rather unlikely, too) PVT worst cases, don't you?So it is not relate to the worst case?
Yes, s. above.And the worst case is that the mismatch will not change with regard to ratio?
I see that you have emphasized on symmetrical (common centroid) configuration many times. But in the foudry DR files, they didn't mention the symmetrical configuration with two ratio caps. Take the 0.023% Std. dev. for example, it gives the caps layout architecture like below:
.
. ...................................................X X
. ..............................................X
. ...................................................X X
where X is unit cap. Then it gives the 1:4 ratio Std.dev at the beginning of this post. But I think this configuration is not a symmetrical one, then what is the usage of the Std.dev. value given by them while we always layout as symmetrical?
The method my friend used is below:
tags to allow for individual formatting.
[COLOR="silver"]- - - Updated - - -[/COLOR]
[QUOTE="urian, post: 1209614, member: 248767"] The method my friend used can be seen in the pic below:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]87960[/ATTACH]
Is this calculation right?[/QUOTE]
Now it's legible ;-), thank you. But the result \[sqrt{{\frac {1} {a}}+{\frac {1} {b}}} \] - for a=1 and b>1 - is always >1 , as I already told you [URL="https://www.edaboard.com/threads/282135/#post1209170"]in my post above[/URL]. Didn't you read it, or are you happy with it?
PS: I didn't take the trouble to retrace your friend's math, because it apparently leads to a wrong result.
Usually the given mismatch σ value is for asymmetric (but adjacent) device configurations - an important figure e.g. for the offset estimation of a differential amplifier (input) stage.
I'm sorry: this math presentation is practically illegible. The forum's LaTeX service unfortunately isn't standard, so there's no simple formatting here (if I ever use it, I use the Preview function until it works correctly).
Now it's legible , thank you. But the result - for a=1 and b>1 - is always >1 , as I already told you in my post above. Didn't you read it, or are you happy with it?
PS: I didn't take the trouble to retrace your friend's math, because it apparently leads to a wrong result.
Seems so, yes.So if we use symmetrical configuration, the calculation result using this δ is worse than practice?
That's true. But if you use a:b=2:2 or a:b=4:4 instead of a:b=1:1 , you each time get different results. Same for 2:4 or 3:6 or 4:8 instead of 1:2 . Now tell me: is this an acceptable method?Yes, the result is always >1 by this method so I can never love it.:smile: I think there may be something wrong when either of them equal 1 as the result will be always>1. But when a>1 and b>1, the result is ≦1 and it sounds reasonable.
Ok. Thinking twice, I hope I now know why your friend's algorithm isn't applicable to your σ calculation problem: in the beginning of the equation system in your above image it states the validity for uncorrelated mismatches, whereas I think in highly symmetric configurations the mismatches are also highly correlated.But most of all, he is confident about his method and I have no idea how to defeat him cause I am confused at all..:-(
That's true. But if you use a:b=2:2 or a:b=4:4 instead of a:b=1:1 , you each time get different results. Same for 2:4 or 3:6 or 4:8 instead of 1:2 . Now tell me: is this an acceptable method?
Ok. Thinking twice, I hope I now know why your friend's algorithm isn't applicable to your σ calculation problem: in the beginning of the equation system in your above image it states the validity for uncorrelated mismatches, whereas I think in highly symmetric configurations the mismatches are also highly correlated.
That's why I gave you the context 1/sqrt(a^2+b^2), which is valid for highly correlated systems. For medium correlated systems, the context 1/sqrt(a+b) is often used, which results in lower attenuation for rising b values.
Now don't ask me where from I got these contexts: I still have them in my mind because I've used them (for different, but similar symmetric problems) ages before, so you'd have to grab them yourself from appropriate literature.
Yes, I'd think so.Is it caused by the uncorrelated assumption between caps. mismatch as you have explained below? So 2:4 or 3:6 or 4:8 will get different result because the number of unit cap is different.
Yes, at least for a 1:n configuration.In a word, my friend's method is not optimized as he didnt take correlation into account which exists in practical layout. If we calculate caps area in this way, we will get a larger size than it should be, right?
I think this depends on the... how can we decide the degree of correlation of a configuration, for common centroid layout, it is a highly or medium correlated system?
Furthemore,your reply looks beautiful;-)
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?