Help needed to design a circuit [ advance lever for indicators ]

[nidclt]

Hi guys, can you please help me create a small circuit for my motorbike. This is the requirement:

When a push to on button is pressed once Relay 1 should be ON for 30 seconds. When I press the same button twice, another relay, Relay 2 should be on for 30 seconds.

Let me explain the use of this circuit. I have a vintage motor bike, it don't have indicators. But have an unwanted advance lever in it. I will use this advance lever for indicators. Pressing it once should ON right indicator, twice - left indicator. I don't want to use modern switches on it and don't need to to add anything new in the handle.

Hope someone good with 555 ICs can help me here, Thanks in advance.

 

[chuckey]

Re: Help needed to design a circuit

Good idea, I think that you need an additional delay, say 2 S. So you press the button the 2S runs, if nothing else happens the R indicator comes. If a second button push is registered within the 2S, then the L indicator comes on, else the R would always come on!. Also if the button is pushed at anytime either indicator is running, they stop and all timers are reset/cleared, so it can all start in the right sequence. I presume that this piece of kit would incorporate the 1HZ flasher?
Frank

 

[d123]

Re: Help needed to design a circuit

Hi,

Can you say what voltage the relays are please, and where and at what voltage the 555 will be powered from, thanks. I don't know anything about motorbikes or how the levers work on them - Do you only need the circuit design up to the relays?
I know the circuit you mean quite well, it's pretty easy and standard, you can also use/would also need a CD4017 for the once = right/relay 1, twice = left indicator/relay 2.

If you post some details, I'll post the circuit later, meanwhile all I could do is an example but lacking component values... Thanks.

 

[d123]

Re: Help needed to design a circuit

Hi,

I have done a quick schematic for your circuit needs, it may not be what you were looking for 'though, I hope it is a good start anyway. Get a second opinion in case I've made any glaring mistakes.

The components that do not have values stated are because without knowing the voltages it can't be calculated. The components that do have values, assuming you use... let's say from 5 - 12V for the analog circuit, should all be fairly correct, but as ever with a circuit, you may and most likely will need to play around with some of the resistor values a little to fine-tune it all.

I have also assumed that your relays are indicator relays.

This circuit could quite likely be done with the transistors, a 4017 and a flip-flop IC like the 4013, but I've never used one so wouldn't like to invent an untried circuit, maybe some-one else here could advise how to do that, as it would save using two 555s.

The capacitor on the input of the 555s is to make it trigger correctly, otherwise the circuit won't work as the timer needs the trigger signal to go high again in a specified time to function correctly. The resistor and capacitor connected to the 4017 reset pin make it always start on the first output when it is powered up, the resistor is there as that isn't an output. In theory, and it should be so in practice, press once (allow a few milliseconds between presses or it won't respond) and a timer triggers a relay for very roughly 30 seconds, press the button twice and it will move to the next 4017 position and trigger the second timer/relay, press a third time and it will reset to the first "do nothing" position.

It's not ideal, as you need to cycle through the two relays to reset it, and I really suspect this is better accomplished using an up/down counter IC or better yet a PIC or similar. Analog is great, but can become unwieldly just to operate a "simple" logical sequence which needs to follow several options with only one user input...

Anyway, hope it is of some use, at least.

 

[nidclt]

Re: Help needed to design a circuit

Good idea, I think that you need an additional delay, say 2 S. So you press the button the 2S runs, if nothing else happens the R indicator comes. If a second button push is registered within the 2S, then the L indicator comes on, else the R would always come on!. Also if the button is pushed at anytime either indicator is running, they stop and all timers are reset/cleared, so it can all start in the right sequence. I presume that this piece of kit would incorporate the 1HZ flasher?
Frank

Hi Chuckey, You are correct, 2s delay is needed, else first push will always trigger right indicator. also a third push should cancel either indicator. I can either use two automobile indicator flashers at the relays or will need to incorporate two astable multivibrators for blinking indicators. thanks for the input, I didn't think for the 2sec delay.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi,

Can you say what voltage the relays are please, and where and at what voltage the 555 will be powered from, thanks. I don't know anything about motorbikes or how the levers work on them - Do you only need the circuit design up to the relays?
I know the circuit you mean quite well, it's pretty easy and standard, you can also use/would also need a CD4017 for the once = right/relay 1, twice = left indicator/relay 2.

If you post some details, I'll post the circuit later, meanwhile all I could do is an example but lacking component values... Thanks.

thanks d123, Battery voltage of the bike is 12v. Working of lever is simple, when it is pulled, a cable pulls a push to on button. So when the lever is pulled, contact is made as long as it is held, a spring revert it to normal off position when released.
Do you only need the circuit design up to the relays? - I can either use two automotive flasher units or we can integrate astable multivibrators in the circuits so that the relays flashes for 30 seconds.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi,

I have done a quick schematic for your circuit needs, it may not be what you were looking for 'though, I hope it is a good start anyway. Get a second opinion in case I've made any glaring mistakes.

The components that do not have values stated are because without knowing the voltages it can't be calculated. The components that do have values, assuming you use... let's say from 5 - 12V for the analog circuit, should all be fairly correct, but as ever with a circuit, you may and most likely will need to play around with some of the resistor values a little to fine-tune it all.

I have also assumed that your relays are indicator relays.

This circuit could quite likely be done with the transistors, a 4017 and a flip-flop IC like the 4013, but I've never used one so wouldn't like to invent an untried circuit, maybe some-one else here could advise how to do that, as it would save using two 555s.

The capacitor on the input of the 555s is to make it trigger correctly, otherwise the circuit won't work as the timer needs the trigger signal to go high again in a specified time to function correctly. The resistor and capacitor connected to the 4017 reset pin make it always start on the first output when it is powered up, the resistor is there as that isn't an output. In theory, and it should be so in practice, press once (allow a few milliseconds between presses or it won't respond) and a timer triggers a relay for very roughly 30 seconds, press the button twice and it will move to the next 4017 position and trigger the second timer/relay, press a third time and it will reset to the first "do nothing" position.

It's not ideal, as you need to cycle through the two relays to reset it, and I really suspect this is better accomplished using an up/down counter IC or better yet a PIC or similar. Analog is great, but can become unwieldly just to operate a "simple" logical sequence which needs to follow several options with only one user input...

Anyway, hope it is of some use, at least.

many thanks d123, this is really a good start and gave me correct idea what all needed. you have incorporated everything needed.

No problem about fine tuning the timers with different resistor values. The relays that I have with me now is normal relays that works on 12 volts. But I think I can replace these with two flasher relays. many thanks for your help.

 

[chuckey]

Re: Help needed to design a circuit

If you have a continously running 1 HZ mutivibrator and you gate its out put with AND gates you can switch the tick tock out to your relay drivers. This will take 1 quad nand gate and a few components can can be built into a space smaller then a match box. I would actually use transistors to drive the bulbs direct, more reliable then relays , cheaper smaller. . . Not so good for short circuits.
As your nominal battery voltage is 12 V, I would use something quite a bit less, 9V?, this is so you can use a stabiliser and also protect the electronics against spikes coming from the generator.
Frank

 

[nidclt]

d123 - can you please help me make a circuit with battery voltage 12v and also considering the things Frank mentioned, thanks

 

[c_mitra]

Re: Help needed to design a circuit

If you have a continously running 1 HZ mutivibrator and you gate its out put with AND gates you can switch the tick tock out to your relay drivers. This will take 1 quad nand gate and a few components can can be built into a space smaller then a match box. I would actually use transistors to drive the bulbs direct, more reliable then relays , cheaper smaller. . . Not so good for short circuits.

One more thing to add: a speaker that reproduces the tok-tok sound of the relay. Most of the bikers forget to turn off the turn signal and sometimes that causes accidents. I piezo speaker will with a built in driver will not take much space.

 

[nidclt]

Re: Help needed to design a circuit

One more thing to add: a speaker that reproduces the tok-tok sound of the relay. Most of the bikers forget to turn off the turn signal and sometimes that causes accidents. I piezo speaker will with a built in driver will not take much space.

no need for buzzer, I need it to self cancel after 30-45 seconds

 

[d123]

Hi,

Possibly, r.e. the things Frank mentioned: I'm completely unfamiliar with that circuit, so perhaps it makes a lot more sense for chuckey to draw up the schematic for you. e.g. "gate its out put with AND gates," this I don't understand... I agree that using 9V relays is probably the best way to go, as a 12V relay may chatter.