Capacitor, 470nF, 400V connect directly to 220V/50Hz wall outlet?

[zxpa]

Capacitor, 470nF, 400V connect directly to 220V/50Hz wall outlet?

I want to make a SMPS Power Supply circuit.

I want to examine part by part of the circuit separately.

Is it possible to connect this capacitor directly to 220V/50Hz wall outlet and
into the mass?

Circuit diagram:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QxGweBY37QgVELT18

Capacitor, 470nF, 400V, RM22.5, MKP, 10%
https://www.kelco.rs/katalog/detalji.php?ID=5059

Related theme:
https://www.edaboard.com/threads/ho...ly-without-resistor-charge.110918/post-484551

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

Capacitors that are connected between mains should be safety "X" rated.

Klaus

 

[FvM]

According to datasheet, Kemet R75 0.22 uF/400 V RM22.5 mm has 220 VAC rating, but no "X" qualification. Means it's not qualified to withstand expectable mains surges. That doesn't mean that it's necessarily worse than respective X2 capacitors, e.g. Kemet R46 series with 310 VAC rating, it's just not tested.

https://content.kemet.com/datasheets/KEM_F3106_R75.pdf

https://content.kemet.com/datasheets/KEM_F3122_R46_X2_310_125C.pdf

 

[dick_freebird]

What do you hope to observe by such an "experiment"?

 

[zxpa]

There in web shop is written that it is bopolar capacitor in category.

Capacitor, 470nF, 400V, RM22.5, MKP, 10%
https://www.kelco.rs/katalog/detalji.php?ID=5059

A bipolar capacitor is just a non-polarized capacitor.
I think the term is usually in reference to a type
of electrolytic capacitor to make it clear that
you can use it in any orientation since they're usually polarized.

However I see that it is for dc voltage
• Voltage range: 160 – 2,000 VDC

https://content.kemet.com/datasheets/KEM_F3106_R75.pdf
https://content.kemet.com/datasheets/KEM_F3122_R46_X2_310_125C.pdf

I made mistake in buy.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

The purpose of this non-polar plastic film capacitor is to be able to shunt high current from pulsed voltages. When these pulses are controlled on the load side with expected RMS current well below it's rating, this makes it overcome the higher impedance from inductive grid lines.

But it also exposes it to possibly dangerous shorts when over-stressed with spikes on the grid. Then the designer chooses something to raise the impedance used in SMPS line filters called a Balun or Common mode filter where X and Y rated similar caps are used like yours but designed to be self-healing if a breakdown occurs.

Bi-polar or bipolar is different and means two polar caps in one with reversed connections in series and are part of the electrolytic family not plastic film like yours.

 

[zxpa]

There is no pole signed on the box but I understand it now.
Bipolar is for DC Voltage but it can be connected in any direction but
it must be connected just in DC voltage.

Is this capacitor regular for connecting in AC 220V/50Hz and into the mass?
KONDENZATOR MKT Film WIMA MKS4 470nF 630V
https://www.mgelectronic.rs/kondenzator-blok-mkt-470nf-630v-mks4

There is notified:
Voltage AC: 400 V

In the link below:
MKS4 470nF 630V datasheet
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/mks4-470n_630/tht-film-capacitors/wima/mks4j034705g00kssd/
There also written:
decoupling, energy storage, filtering

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

No, it has NOT been certified for the grid as follows;

• Approvals: ENEC, UL, cUL, CQC
• X2 CLASS (IEC 60384-14)

Safety Capacitors First: Class-X and Class-Y Capacitors - Technical Articles

Learn about Class-X and Class-Y capacitors, where they are used, and why they are referred to as

www.allaboutcircuits.com

X & Y ratings means the design of the metal over film layers are either self-healing or fuses open circuit and not short circuit which may result in a fire.

.

 

[FvM]

All major manufacturers have X2 capacitor series, e.g. Wima MKP-X2. I'm sure that your distributor also has some on stock.

 

[Easy peasy]

As noted above, any capacitor placed directly on the mains should be X2 rated, i.e a self healing type rated for the peak stresses that often occur on a mains supply voltage.

 

[zxpa]

I want to make this SMPS Power Supply circuit:

Can I use 275V AC X2 Is it enough?
in the scheme is mentioned 400V but is it related to 400V as
maximum voltage or as a strict for AC voltage?

I found some offers at local distributors.
What of these offers should I use for this circuit diagram?

Capactor, metalized polypropilene, MKP X2, 305V AC, 470nF, RM22.5, Wima
https://www.kelco.rs/katalog/detalji.php?ID=14797

I found here:
https://silken.co.rs/proizvod/470nf-440vac-x2/

KOX2470N275JB15
http://www.interhit.rs/r46-r-15-375...klase-x2-470nf-275v-r-15mm-2000000186269.html

Is it X2 series? X2 (MKP X2)?
https://www.mgelectronic.rs/kondenzator-blok-mkp-470nf-400v-mkp10

Capacitor MKT Film WIMA MKS4 470nF 630V
https://www.mgelectronic.rs/kondenzator-blok-mkt-470nf-630v-mks4

Capacitor MKP Film WIMA MKP10 470nF 630V
https://www.mgelectronic.rs/kondenzator-blok-mkp-470nf-630v-mkp10

 

[FvM]

Need to learn how to read datasheets. Capacitors that don't specify X2 aren't, e.g. MKP10, MKS4.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

This design does not include the essential details you need to choose all the parts called a bill of material or BOM and PCB layout.
Although it is simple and is an unregulated forward converter.

You will have a thousand questions like this when it doesn't work. A schematic is not enough to build a power supply until you do a lot of reading and get lab experience.

You need a parts list and PCB and EVERY part has a specific resistance {DCR, ESR, RdsOn} and many others that look to have the same value are not the same will not work.

I suggest you buy a kit to do this or a complete board from Banggood or similar if possible. It should have safety certificates.

That

--- Updated Mar 29, 2024 ---

for your interest https://www.amazon.de/-/en/A07-TPA3...+amplifier+300wx2+hifi+class+d,aps,138&sr=8-1

 

[betwixt]

You are confusing me Tony. This started as a question about voltage ratings of a capacitor but you link to an advert for a 300W amplifier!

Brian.

 

[zxpa]

Is this capacitor sutable to connect directly in mains?

Capacitor 470nF 275V AC, RM22.5, X2 class

Kelco - Detalji proizvoda - Kondenzator, 470nF 275V AC, RM22.5, X2 klasa

Circuit diagram:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QxGweBY37QgVELT18

 

[FvM]

R46 datasheet has been already linked in post #3 as example of a X2 capacitor that fits the application.

 

[zxpa]

Thank you I am going to consider.

 

[Audioguru]

The Amazon 600W power amplifier comes with a 32V 5A (160W) power supply. Where will the remaining (600 - 160=) 440W come from?

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

You are confusing me Tony. This started as a question about voltage ratings of a capacitor but you link to an advert for a 300W amplifier!

Brian.

FWIW it was a reality check of make vs buy for modern AC powered power technology. The proposed schema was obviously power for audio BW

 

[zxpa]

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It would be dangerous for me as a beginner to experiment
with X2 capacitors and wall line.